Does anyone have any suggestions/techniques/products they can help me with with respect to getting a nice varnish finish on mahogany? I am in the midst of restoring my toy that floats and runs -- 1975 13' Boston Whaler and the seating needs a bit of love and attention -- quite a bit.
I looked in the building tips section and didn't see anything in there, although I could have missed it as I am operating on slightly less than 3 hours sleep today.
I'm planning on taking all of the wood off the Whaler this weekend and bringing it home so I can work on it in the comfort of my heated basement.
Please consider this a Varnishing for Dummies request as I have next to zero experience in doing this. So please, the basics!
Thanks in advance -- Tom
Varnish
Moderators: CaptPatrick, mike ohlstein, Bruce
-
CaptPatrick
- Founder/Admin
- Posts: 4161
- Joined: Jun 7th, '06, 14:25
- Location: 834 Scott Dr., LLANO, TX 78643 - 325.248.0809 bertram31@bertram31.com
While not the longest lasting and will require at least 2 maintenance top coats every 6 months, (spring & fall), Z-Spar Captain's Varnish is a very good beginners varnish. Easy to apply, relatively forgiving, and the finish can be prolonged, (as with any varnish), by keeping the varnished items covered and out of sight of UV rays.
The basics go like this:
Take the wood down to bare. 120 grit paper, followed by 220 and 320. Sand away all traces of old varnish and age stains/discolorations. Clean the bare wood with mineral spirits and allow it to dry over night.
The first coat of varnish needs to really penetrate the wood, so cut the varnish about 10% with mineral spirits. Allow it to soak in for a few minutes and repeat as necessary until the varnish stops soaking in and remains wet after 3 or 4 minutes. Wipe all the excess varnish away with a jersey rag dampened with mineral spirits.
Allow this initial varnishing to dry for at least 24 hours.
After drying, you're ready to start the build up coats. First, light sand, by hand, any "fuzz" from the surface. Wipe clean with a tack cloth or a rag dampened with mineral spirits.
Apply a full wet, but not soggy, coat of un-cut varnish and allow it to dry for about an hour, (called hot coating). Apply a second wet coat and allow it to dry for 24 hours. Continue this process until you have a minimum of 6 coats applied.
Allow the final coat to dry for 48 hours and thoroughly hand sand with 320 grit paper. Wipe away all dust with the tack cloth or a rag dampened with mineral spirits.
Do a final 2 coats, adding a small amount of brushing liquid, no more than an hour apart, and your done with the base varnish.
Maintaining your varnish is critical so as not to have to go back through the whole previous process again.
Again, maintenance coats are at least a twice a year process, but go on quick and easy. One way to know when it's time to do maintenance is watch for the varnished item to slightly dull. Close inspection will reveal an almost light cobweb effect to the surface.
Maintenance coats are done by first scrubbing the varnished item with a fine refinishing pad, (3M white or equivalent), washing with soap and water, rinsing well, and allowing to completely dry.
Lay down a coat of varnish w/ brushing liquid, wait no more than an hour before laying down the second coat. You're done...
Pitfalls:
Trying to varnish in a dusty environment. Dust dropping in for a visit on fresh varnish is the number one biggest problem to overcome.
Trapped volatiles between coats is the second biggest problem. If you wait too long between hot coats the skin has formed on the previous coat and the next coat will not blend properly, causing the previous coat to wrinkle up. If you see this happening, immediately scrub all the new varnish off with the refinishing pad and mineral spirits. Start again...
Brushes:
Only use quality firm natural bristle brushes, badger hair is the preferred varnish brush. Clean the brush very thoroughly with mineral spirits, then wash with soap and warm water. Rinse completely, dip the brush in clean mineral spirits, tap out the excess, and store the brush in a tightly sealed zip lock bag. Make sure that the bristles are laying perfectly flat and not splayed out.
Do Not Work directly out the varnish can!
Pour the needed varnish into a clean, dust free container, and tightly reseal the can. Once opened, store the can in an upside down fashion. Do not pour any left over varnish back into the can. Throw it away...
Don't scrape the brush on the rim of the varnish cup, gently tap off the excess load, tapping the rim of the container just below the furrele.
The basics go like this:
Take the wood down to bare. 120 grit paper, followed by 220 and 320. Sand away all traces of old varnish and age stains/discolorations. Clean the bare wood with mineral spirits and allow it to dry over night.
The first coat of varnish needs to really penetrate the wood, so cut the varnish about 10% with mineral spirits. Allow it to soak in for a few minutes and repeat as necessary until the varnish stops soaking in and remains wet after 3 or 4 minutes. Wipe all the excess varnish away with a jersey rag dampened with mineral spirits.
Allow this initial varnishing to dry for at least 24 hours.
After drying, you're ready to start the build up coats. First, light sand, by hand, any "fuzz" from the surface. Wipe clean with a tack cloth or a rag dampened with mineral spirits.
Apply a full wet, but not soggy, coat of un-cut varnish and allow it to dry for about an hour, (called hot coating). Apply a second wet coat and allow it to dry for 24 hours. Continue this process until you have a minimum of 6 coats applied.
Allow the final coat to dry for 48 hours and thoroughly hand sand with 320 grit paper. Wipe away all dust with the tack cloth or a rag dampened with mineral spirits.
Do a final 2 coats, adding a small amount of brushing liquid, no more than an hour apart, and your done with the base varnish.
Maintaining your varnish is critical so as not to have to go back through the whole previous process again.
Again, maintenance coats are at least a twice a year process, but go on quick and easy. One way to know when it's time to do maintenance is watch for the varnished item to slightly dull. Close inspection will reveal an almost light cobweb effect to the surface.
Maintenance coats are done by first scrubbing the varnished item with a fine refinishing pad, (3M white or equivalent), washing with soap and water, rinsing well, and allowing to completely dry.
Lay down a coat of varnish w/ brushing liquid, wait no more than an hour before laying down the second coat. You're done...
Pitfalls:
Trying to varnish in a dusty environment. Dust dropping in for a visit on fresh varnish is the number one biggest problem to overcome.
Trapped volatiles between coats is the second biggest problem. If you wait too long between hot coats the skin has formed on the previous coat and the next coat will not blend properly, causing the previous coat to wrinkle up. If you see this happening, immediately scrub all the new varnish off with the refinishing pad and mineral spirits. Start again...
Brushes:
Only use quality firm natural bristle brushes, badger hair is the preferred varnish brush. Clean the brush very thoroughly with mineral spirits, then wash with soap and warm water. Rinse completely, dip the brush in clean mineral spirits, tap out the excess, and store the brush in a tightly sealed zip lock bag. Make sure that the bristles are laying perfectly flat and not splayed out.
Do Not Work directly out the varnish can!
Pour the needed varnish into a clean, dust free container, and tightly reseal the can. Once opened, store the can in an upside down fashion. Do not pour any left over varnish back into the can. Throw it away...
Don't scrape the brush on the rim of the varnish cup, gently tap off the excess load, tapping the rim of the container just below the furrele.
-
TailhookTom
- Senior Member
- Posts: 985
- Joined: Jul 3rd, '06, 14:12
-
Bertramp
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1430
- Joined: Jan 2nd, '09, 14:57
- Location: Sag Harbor, NY Fort Lauderdale, FL
- Contact:
I've had many many 13s, 15ss, 17 and now a commercial 21 Whaler.
CHEAT (sac-religion) ... sand it down, use some mattahorn white interlux paint and forget about it for 3 yrs .... and it will look great !
CHEAT (sac-religion) ... sand it down, use some mattahorn white interlux paint and forget about it for 3 yrs .... and it will look great !
1970 Bertram Bahia Mar - hull# 316-1003
1973 Bertram 38 (widebody) - hull# BER005960473
Steve "Bertramp" Kelly
1973 Bertram 38 (widebody) - hull# BER005960473
Steve "Bertramp" Kelly
Another technique is described by System Three:
http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/l ... ishing.pdf
I am using this technique for my B25 woodwork. HVLP spray of the varnish costs saves lots of time. Also, you can stain the wood before applying the epoxy seal coats, just let the stain dry for a couple of weeks to ensure that all the oil is dry. Using epoxy significantly reduces the number of varnsih coats needed and it's easy to apply - self leveling.
My 13 Whaler's wood needs a refinish as well (1973). It will get the special treatment next winter.
Cam
http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/l ... ishing.pdf
I am using this technique for my B25 woodwork. HVLP spray of the varnish costs saves lots of time. Also, you can stain the wood before applying the epoxy seal coats, just let the stain dry for a couple of weeks to ensure that all the oil is dry. Using epoxy significantly reduces the number of varnsih coats needed and it's easy to apply - self leveling.
My 13 Whaler's wood needs a refinish as well (1973). It will get the special treatment next winter.
Cam
1963 Bertram 25
1973 Boston Whaler 13 - sold!
1998 Scout 172 SF - beach taxi
1973 Boston Whaler 13 - sold!
1998 Scout 172 SF - beach taxi
There are two things a beginner needs to know about paint and varnish that no one thinks to tell you because they learned it so long ago:
First, there are two stages to applying paint or varnish with a brush, the putting the paint on the wood stage, and the tipping off stage.
For the first part you are just getting a good even layer of paint on the area you are working, THEN after the stuff is in place you tip it off. Since you can't reach more than 3 feet of a piece at a whack you do it in sections keeping a wet edge as you go along. It goes like this... lets say you work from your right to your left because you find it comfortable. Rather quickly, but not rushing, get varnish on a section 2 to 2.5 feet or so, or whatever feels comfy, using whatever sort of brush stroke it takes. Cross grain, dabbing into corners, whatever... personally I use a cross grain stroke as my preferred way, but your mileage may vary. then once everything is nicely covered you "tip it off" holding the brush very gently and taking long straight brush strokes with the grain of the wood. You then move to the next 2 feet or so and repeat, overlapping the first section a little as you tip off the varnish and trying to lift the brush at the end of the stroke where the new overlapps the old in a just-so way so as to not leave any obvious ends of strokes. At this stage nice long straight brush marks (and probably a couple of bubbles) will still be present, but leave them. As the varnish dries they should lay down. The thing to understand is that the varnish realy starts to dry very quickly, not to your touch, but in the way it "works" with the brush, and you can only " work" it at its wettest.
Tip number two: When (not if, but when) a bug or bubble or blemish or loose bristle finds its way into your already-tipped-off section... leave it until the varnish is totally dry. Then sand it out as necessary and retouch the blemish or cover it in the next coat. Trying to fix it in half-dried varnish makes an awful mess.
Peter
First, there are two stages to applying paint or varnish with a brush, the putting the paint on the wood stage, and the tipping off stage.
For the first part you are just getting a good even layer of paint on the area you are working, THEN after the stuff is in place you tip it off. Since you can't reach more than 3 feet of a piece at a whack you do it in sections keeping a wet edge as you go along. It goes like this... lets say you work from your right to your left because you find it comfortable. Rather quickly, but not rushing, get varnish on a section 2 to 2.5 feet or so, or whatever feels comfy, using whatever sort of brush stroke it takes. Cross grain, dabbing into corners, whatever... personally I use a cross grain stroke as my preferred way, but your mileage may vary. then once everything is nicely covered you "tip it off" holding the brush very gently and taking long straight brush strokes with the grain of the wood. You then move to the next 2 feet or so and repeat, overlapping the first section a little as you tip off the varnish and trying to lift the brush at the end of the stroke where the new overlapps the old in a just-so way so as to not leave any obvious ends of strokes. At this stage nice long straight brush marks (and probably a couple of bubbles) will still be present, but leave them. As the varnish dries they should lay down. The thing to understand is that the varnish realy starts to dry very quickly, not to your touch, but in the way it "works" with the brush, and you can only " work" it at its wettest.
Tip number two: When (not if, but when) a bug or bubble or blemish or loose bristle finds its way into your already-tipped-off section... leave it until the varnish is totally dry. Then sand it out as necessary and retouch the blemish or cover it in the next coat. Trying to fix it in half-dried varnish makes an awful mess.
Peter
-
CaptPatrick
- Founder/Admin
- Posts: 4161
- Joined: Jun 7th, '06, 14:25
- Location: 834 Scott Dr., LLANO, TX 78643 - 325.248.0809 bertram31@bertram31.com
My 2 cents:
I used epifanes rapidcoat, not a "true varnish" but you do not need to sand between coats and can apply many coats over a couple of days. Just need to lightly sand as prescribed above for your maintenance coats. First time I had ever done any brightwork, it was very forgiving.
Brad
I used epifanes rapidcoat, not a "true varnish" but you do not need to sand between coats and can apply many coats over a couple of days. Just need to lightly sand as prescribed above for your maintenance coats. First time I had ever done any brightwork, it was very forgiving.
Brad
1972 Bertram 28 FBC
I used this method on my teak. West System for base and then Epiphanes Varnish to finish. First layer of West System cut 50% with denatured alcohol. Let it really soak into the wood. Scuff with a mild pad, and then apply 2 more full coats of West System with a mild and then fine scuff pad (or 220 grit wet sandpaper) in succession. Then apply the Epiphanes and repeat... mild scuffing and then a fine scuffing before the last coat. Anytime I had a problem, all I had to do was scuff it back down to the West System epoxy instead of bare wood.
Harv
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 188 guests