Looking at a 31 out here in so cal with what the seller states are Cummins 408 (185hp) engines. I've searched boat diesel, the web in general, here, and nothing seems to indicate that the model number is accurate.
The nearest I've been able to identify these, is possibly as cummins 504's (they appear to have 4 cylinders per side and I dont see a turbo).
Any ideas? Trying to figure out if its a good value (seller is asking low/mid 20s).
The boat itself seems to be at odds with itself. the engines look like crap, but the electrical side of things and other items look great in other pics the seller provided to me - except for that gilligans island wheel.
I have a feeling it's being used as a waterfront condo and very little of anything else.
My .02. I'd buy if the rest of the boat was worth it.
Engines if sound may have life left...but I'd expect to yank them for new power if and when trouble came around. Real tight to work on, parts are getting harder to find.
Now if you have to put new power in...is the boat worth it?? Diesel power $$$...go back to gas and you need to replace tank (ethanol) $$$
Sell boat with a bad motor...tough sell.
On the up side, it looks like a nice wine selection in the rack.
The boat has to be a Sportsfisherman that had the lower stations seat removed, cabinets built and a standup head built on the starboard side where the Flybridge cruiser has it. The engine experts will have to come in on what those Cummins are. Wish they had taken better care of them.
they are 504 cummins not worth a dime more the gas mercruiser. this is the one time when "diesel bertram " is misleading advertisment. other then the wine rack , the fuel tank has been plumb for return fuel and tank has only had diesel fuel in it ,makes conversion to modern diesel that much easier plus the price and labor of new tank installation (about 5,000 dollars on the plus side)
Those are 504's they cruise at 17-19 Kts at 2700 rpms with a total burn of 15 to 17 GPH. I have them in my 31' and they've been reliable for the last 15years. The engines of course are old technology but they are work horses and if maintained are tuff to kill. Maintenence being oil change, occasional tune up depending on use, raw water pump/impellers, paint, really just basic TLC. I lost one due to pin holes in exhaust riser that allowed raw water in the last cyl when shut down I replaced the engine with a rebuilt and runs fine. I learned the hard way on that one. When I started the old engine there was rusty water out the exhaust I couldn't figure out what is was until it was too late.
the bertram 31 with a 504 cummins also rides like a tank .with cast iron 73/bw gears we are looking at more then two tons aft of the bulkhead makes for a great ride in the rough stuff.
bob lico wrote:the bertram 31 with a 504 cummins also rides like a tank .with cast iron 73/bw gears we are looking at more then two tons aft of the bulkhead makes for a great ride in the rough stuff.
the original phoenix had 504 cummins from factory . saved alot of work converting to modern diesel with 231 gallon diesel fuel tank already in place. nice ride!
Survey the boat and engines. Find someone who knows the 504s.
Long time ago 504s and 3208s were what was available that would fit.
They were big heavy iron that ran slow but do to the weight you have much less pounding.
If they run, then use em till you can't no more.
Check with serviciability in your area. many techs in their 30's and 40's never saw a 504 and while a diesel is a diesel is a diesel, you may well find it tough to get serviced unless some old bastard like myself is still dumb enough to be working on boats.
Low 20's for a running diesel 31 is cheap. Not so cheap sitting at the dock with a blown engine.
why do you say that bruce? if i had another shot at life i would have been a high tech diesel mech. my friend phil topped everyone of my friends. (thank GOD i did not finish college) phils words " bob 5% of the mech. due 85% of the work" phil only does big detroit/mtu,cat, and man .2010 he made $442,000 which was better then any of the doctors i know. he travels as far south as nc. and does the impossible jobs that the young snotnose kids cannot do.
bob lico wrote:why do you say that bruce? if i had another shot at life i would have been a high tech diesel mech. my friend phil topped everyone of my friends. (thank GOD i did not finish college) phils words " bob 5% of the mech. due 85% of the work" phil only does big detroit/mtu,cat, and man .2010 he made $442,000 which was better then any of the doctors i know. he travels as far south as nc. and does the impossible jobs that the young snotnose kids cannot do.
bob lico wrote:why do you say that bruce? if i had another shot at life i would have been a high tech diesel mech. my friend phil topped everyone of my friends. (thank GOD i did not finish college) phils words " bob 5% of the mech. due 85% of the work" phil only does big detroit/mtu,cat, and man .2010 he made $442,000 which was better then any of the doctors i know. he travels as far south as nc. and does the impossible jobs that the young snotnose kids cannot do.
Bob ... is Phil from the Mattituck area with a B33 sportfish and a 26 regulator ?
1970 Bahia Mar - hull# 316-1003
1990 Blackfin 27 - center console
Steve "Bertramp" Kelly
thats the differant your a nice guy while phil is a bastard.billed from the minute he gets into his truck at $ 152.00 a hour.then on site like last week the people from twin disc threw there hands in the air a giant tug with 3504 cats ran over a 21/2" kevlar line ,wound up on shaft and pull shaft out of case. new gear 90,000 no problem except engine will not talk to new style digital gears convert and charged more money then the dream team lawyers with a loss of 150,000 lay up time they had to paid.this would be right down your alley .
yes bertramp diesel power inc.
heh heh heh .... I figured.
Known Phil a long time. HATED him at points, but he is a damn good mechanic. After all of our years (approx 20), he is actually a good friend and looks out for me in many cases.
Long Island is a small place. He actually pointed me to the 31 Bahia that I bought. He also purchased my old 31 FBC and my 28 FBC. His first 2 Bertrams.
1970 Bahia Mar - hull# 316-1003
1990 Blackfin 27 - center console
Steve "Bertramp" Kelly
i think they call his business strategy "moments of a opportunist".when you are that good and you come on the seen i guess you really cannot be humble. 60' jim smith broken crankshaft in starboard engine. 12 cylinder man. 4 differant independant contractors look at job and make up estimate ; remove rear bulkhead, rip up teak & holly sole etc. one arrogant elite tech says " no problem i will replace crank in place . quite a bit of disbelief rings out then he comes and does the job with the others estimate of massive boat recontruction , boat carpentry in his . walks away with spotless job (bring in guys to clean ) and a fistfull of dollars and of couse makes the others look like fools.i could go on and on with 200' trinities and commerial boats .talks to cat and man directly . most dislike guy i ever seen but the best of the best .been friends for 20 years.
Phil was at a B31 rendezvous held at Montauk Yacht Club several years ago, in what was my old FBC. He named it "Captivator".
We met initially when he did a rebuild on a pair of DD8V53s for me in an old 41 Hatteras. Engines purred, but job took a lot longer than originally stated. Got to the point that his sister stepped between us one day on what was probably gonna be a brawl. That was 20 yrs ago. Since then he has done a lot of VERY good work for me and I truely consider the arrogant little prick "my friend". He's made his money when I was up .... and covered my ass for a handshake and a beer when I was down.
But I will never forgive him for introducing my "ex" (plaintiff) and me to the man who would ultimately be her divorce attorney. Did I say he was a friend ?!?!
Over the years, he has worked on old Detroits, Cats and Cummins for me and they have all run very well !!
1970 Bahia Mar - hull# 316-1003
1990 Blackfin 27 - center console
Steve "Bertramp" Kelly
and a private road leading to a 10 acre bluff looking over the long island sound with a 4 million house. my next life!! runs 4 men now at same deal . just bird hunts the rest of the time.
i see him every week . phil knows i come right back at him with another "reinvent the wheel" but i am impressed with his hunting dogs both waterfowl and upland bird. sit in the blind with there eyes forward, silent then go in the water in the middle of the winter and bring back bird ,put it at your feet . beautiful animal, incredible bahavior, along with 12 car garage with antique tractors.i could imagine bruce being in the same catagory in south east florida , "call me last bruce" diesel repair. i only show up when nobody else can do it at double the price.
