Running Gear - upgrades/maintenence

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 30th, '10, 12:11

sim i was trying to identify the shaft coupling so i would be able to run over there and remove shafts in a few minutes to sent to your shop or walk away with one piece because i cannot camp out in his yard (with torch )without sombody knowing i am from oyc.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 30th, '10, 13:51

Bob, I see where you were headed now...

I'm thinking he was just putting together a plan of attack, as the boat is in the water. I was trying to avoid having a bud bring his boat to a yard and telling them to rip it all out and give me new. Some yards and mechanics would take the time to evaluate what is there before replacing...other's won't and will destroy perfectly good shafts...I was hoping to avoid the later scenario.

If your going to lend a hand or give personal instruction...well, that cannot be beat and we know he'll be headed in the right direction. So Pete, get Bob some pictures...

Bob, hate to say it...but it looks like a Solid Coupling...looks too short and cannot detect the clamping lobes...at least the bolts are new. Hopefully, just a bad angle.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 30th, '10, 13:59

sim -------o.e.m about 98% chance of being seized and they have no patients to either apply break away or heat . most likely "they were no good so we cut them out" ----bullshit; a little patients can go a long way but they can`t make money that way nor will they let a outsider come in the yard without 20% added or kick back.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 30th, '10, 20:04

I will get some pics when I get down to the boat it is in the water not a yard at the village marina.

Just picked up a set of props from Tony Meola today. Wonderful guy and a great headstart on things.

I mentioned this way back but my neighbor is a marine surveyor and a pretty good one. He seemed to think the vibrations are more then the accepted norm.

Bob thanks for the offer to take a look.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 30th, '10, 22:07

Pete

It was great meeting you. The conversation over lunch was the best part. Hopefully we get to do it again some time. I am sure the props will work out for you.

Any issues with the props let me know. I have another set we can swap them for. Just that the other ones are not balanced.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 2nd, '11, 12:36

bob lico wrote:sim -------o.e.m about 98% chance of being seized and they have no patients to either apply break away or heat . most likely "they were no good so we cut them out" ----bullshit; a little patients can go a long way but they can`t make money that way nor will they let a outsider come in the yard without 20% added or kick back.

...and this is the reason I would hate to have a bud go into an unknown yard and give them Carte Blanche.

Pete, there are many factors that can lead to an Above Normal Vibration...the trick is to fix what is wrong and not just replace every item along the way in doing so. The difference can be several thousand dollars with little no additional benefit.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 3rd, '11, 14:38

Never got down onto the boat. She seemed to be doing fine and I didn't want to track mud and snow onto the teak decks. I will hopefully take some pictures next weekend although we may get more snow Friday into Saturday.

Now that I've got the reconditioned props from Tony I can put those on along with changing the cutlass bearings and see where that leaves me. I was originally thinking of having the shafts pulled and checked, change the shaft logs and stuffing boxes in the process but now I'm not sure if I should.

Again thanks for all the thoughts I am hoping to have enough of a clue by march so that I just don't start replacing stuff willy nilly.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 3rd, '11, 15:29

At this stage of the game, take the position of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"...

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 3rd, '11, 15:49

In regards to the running gear what is considered regular maintenance items?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 3rd, '11, 15:55

Keep everything bonded and clean and check the zincs every three montns or so...

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 3rd, '11, 16:34

Upon survey. It was recommended that I replace the cutlass bearings asap.

My thinking was that the shafts would need to come out to replace the cutlass bearings at which point I should check the shafts to make sure they are straight. While they're out why not replace the shaft logs and stuffing boxes.

That's not the case?

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 3rd, '11, 16:39

Here is what was stated on the survey, keep in mind the surveyor is a neighbor and friend

"The starboard propeller was "dull" when tested with a light hammer tap. This indicates that the propeller may be loose, damaged, or suffering from corrosion. I recommend that the starboard propeller be removed for inspection and reconditioned or replaced as necessary.
The port cutlass bearing is showing some signs of wear. It is likely that the port cutlass bearing will need to be replaced in the next season or two.
During the sea trial there was evidence of excessive vibration emanating from the running gear. Closer examination revealed some vibration coming from the starboard engine. In addition the port propeller shaft appears to be out of true (i.e. bent) and producing a significant vibration at lower speeds. I recommend that the port propeller shaft be removed and repaired or replaced as necessary. In addition I recommend that
both the port and starboard engines be realigned to their propeller shafts. A sea trial should be repeated once the repairs are complete to ensure the findings have been corrected.
The packing material is leaking excessively at the port and starboard rudder posts and at the starboard propeller shaft. In addition the port propeller shaft packing was overly warm after the sea trial, and no water was observed dripping from the fitting (the fitting should drip whilst underway to ensure proper cooling of the flax packing material). I
recommend that the packing material all four shaft logs (two at the rudders, two at the propeller shafts) be adjusted or replaced as necessary.
An oil leak was observed on the starboard engine during the sea trial. The leak appeared to originate from between the intake manifold and the block at the aft end of the engine under the distributor. I recommend that the oil leak be repaired as necessary."
Prior to buying the boat all stuffing boxes were repacked and tightened, the manifold gasket was replaced and the engines were aligned. I picked up props from Tony that are in very good condition, they are not yet on the boat.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 3rd, '11, 17:13

PeterPalmieri wrote:Upon survey. It was recommended that I replace the cutlass bearings asap.

My thinking was that the shafts would need to come out to replace the cutlass bearings at which point I should check the shafts to make sure they are straight. While they're out why not replace the shaft logs and stuffing boxes.

That's not the case?

If you need bearings...replace them. Bad bearings = vibration and will wear shaft prematurely.

Some yards can remove and install bearings with shaft in place.

If you pull the shafts...have them checked, bring coupling along.

If you do not pull the shafts and least get someone to put a dial indicator on them and check for Run-out...I can go over how to do this if you go that route.

Changing shaft log and Stuffing Box...save your money! Repack the Stuffing Box if you want or need to...will cost you 5 bucks for good ol Flax packing and your good for another few years where you can add another ring of fresh packing.

Shaft log...unless you had bad electrolysis and see pitting or the log is leaking...let it be. I pulled mine to check it, as I had everything up when I did the floor...Damm thing was solid as hell so I sealed it back up and I'll let the next owner worry about it in another 40 years.

Want to do something in that area...change the Stuffing Box Hose and Clamps, spend some extra and go with the T-bolt SS Clamps. That stuff gets old needs the occasional replacement.

Want to dump some money into her...Install PSS Dripless Packing by PYI...its money spent to stop the normal "one drip a minute" you will get with a Standard Packing Gland.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 3rd, '11, 21:35

Peter

What Sim said is correct. Check the bolts on were the log comes attaches to the hull. If they are not leaking and and it looks solid you are good to go. Change the rubber hose that goes on the log, that tends to break down and crack over time. Save your money on The PSS. the old stuffing box is the simplist and you never have to worry it about because there is no cooling tube to clog.

Get yourself some Goretex packing and you will be good to go. The goretex makes the log almost dripless.

www.gfopacking.com/buy_now.htm

Unless the shafts are really bad they can be straightened. I was shocked to learn no shaft is true even when new, unitl the machine shop true's them up before guys like you and I even see them.

I will leave that for SIM to explain.

Use the bigger wheel you got from me, that will bring the RPM's more in line. You should top out between 4200 and 4400. Cruise at 3000 should be around 19 knots give or take.

A good yard will be able to press out the cutlass bearing and put a new on in without having to pull the shaft.

Good luck.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 4th, '11, 13:36

I've heard good things about the Goretex packing, but no 1st hand knowledge...Tony, how long have you been running the Goretex? Have you pulled the shaft since to see if you have any wear on the shaft at the Stuffing Gland? I've been reluctant to try or recommend since they came out with the Teflon Packing that ate SS Shafts.

Tony is right...just because the shaft is new does not mean it is straight or within tolerance...just means its new.

A shaft mishandled, especially full 20' lengths can easily be knocked out of tolerance by something as simple as lifting quickly in the center. This can be done at the suppliers warehouse, during crating and shipping or at the Machine shop when uncrating, machining etc.

Even a shaft within tolerance is not perfectly straight...just means it's considered Straight within normal guidelines. Before I changed out my tranny I used to turn 1:1. Tolerance for my shaft was .005 TIR (Total Indicator Runout). At .005 my boat shook to Sh$t...at least to me it did. I had to get the shaft straight to .003 or better ( .003 is the thickness of a sheet of paper).

Aside from shafts being Out of Straight when new...we had a flurry of wheels coming directly from the factory that where way out...

New is not always better...

Joef · Post by **Joef** » Jan 4th, '11, 16:44

SIM:

I've been using the gore packing for 5 or 6 years inside standard Gracco stuffing boxes. Install is just like flax packing. Remove all the old stuff and put in new like normal, and be careful to not overtighten the nut...i'd say about "2-finger" tight is enough at first. the stuff is softer than normal flax and its easy to overtighten with your bare hands. Running at idle, adjust till you get the normal drip. Run for a few hours - make final adjustment ...and you are good to go for a few years. Once the packing "sets" you won[t even get a drip. My boxes now run sea-water cold and i'd call them "damp, with no drip at all" while running at normal cruise. I've not noticed any sort of pitting or other corrosion on the aquamet 22 shafts...and it would be easy for me to notice, cause i put the new shafts in when i bought the boat.

...but be careful about overtightening...as Brew would say ..."ask me how i know"

Joe

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 4th, '11, 17:00

Thanks Joef,
I'm thinking I may go this route for myself.

I have to ask...how do you know?

I'm thinking the gland got real hot when underway, maybe a squeal...

Carl

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 4th, '11, 22:01

Sim

I only ran Goretex for a few years before I repowered. Since the shafts are new I can't say if there are any issues but I really liked the stuff. I did not go dripless when I repowered. I was talked out of it by the Cummins dealer. Like he said, ever have trouble with the old style gland. I said no. He said then what are you really going to gain and if the dripless decides to quit on you offshore, you are %$#@.

Yes nice to have a dry bilge, but who really has a dry bilge. It does rain from time to time.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 5th, '11, 09:31

If you guys remember from Brew being on Fox 5 my wife works in TV and this is what her friends do for fun. Carter is our 17 month old son, this is why I want a safe and reliable boat!

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu280%2Fpeterpalmieri%2FBaby%2520Pictures%2Fthecarterwalk.mp4">

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 5th, '11, 11:13

great video, heartwarming to say the least. i went thru this a short time ago with my grandchildren so it brings wonderful mermories because i was working night and day with my own.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 5th, '11, 14:13

It's fun stuff!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 5th, '11, 22:10

Peter

Good stuff. That is pretty cool. Something to have forever.

bertram31.com

Running Gear - upgrades/maintenence

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