Source for strut bolts..

Whaler1777 · Post by **Whaler1777** » Oct 18th, '10, 21:14

Hello all... Does anyone have a connection to get some 3/8-16 3-12" Strut bolts? Seems like they can be had but they're a small fortune... Any help is greatly appreciated!
Hope all is well...
-John

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 18th, '10, 21:34

hey Capt John

I think I may have some of them....They are Manganese Bronze....I will look tomorrow and check the length.

DO NOT use regular Bronze Bolts....not strong enough.

I think may be I have 6......

hb

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Oct 18th, '10, 22:17

John, I would try Karl Tank.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 18th, '10, 22:25

harry i will be needing same set up -----12 bolts is there a big differants between maganese and silicon bronze?

Whaler1777 · Post by **Whaler1777** » Oct 18th, '10, 22:37

Tried Karl Tank, of course he had strut bolts (they have all the good old stuff) but the ones that he has are 4" long and only had an inch of thread at the end and they were somewhere in the market of $18.00 each :shock:

Whaler1777 · Post by **Whaler1777** » Oct 18th, '10, 22:38

Thanks much Harry... Whats the diff between manganese and silicon?

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 19th, '10, 07:28

Actually guys......I may be confused (happens more and more these days) what I have may be silicone bronze.....I will check for sure.

The bolts that I have ARE strut bolts....I bought them at a bolt shop in Pensacola Fla when I was reworking the port strut while I was under gas power.

I now have Stainless Steel struts and I am using Stainless Steel bolts....

I will check for the bolts shortly and report back......by now they are probably under about 12 layers of Harrys Treasures (IE: Junk)

hb

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 19th, '10, 07:50

John and Bob,

Call Jamestown Distributors.

Dug

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Oct 19th, '10, 07:56

I've read that for applications below the waterline, or in any location that will be constantly immersed in salt water, using stainless steel is a bad choice. You might want to check into that deeper before installing stainless hardware.... I believe that silicone bronze is the correct alloy for that application. The story is that the stainless will never be able to form the passive protective layer that makes it work, because it is never exposed to the air, and will rust away if constantly immersed.

I've also learned this the hard way myself, after adding a transom zinc and (unfortunately) using SS bolts. They are rusting badly after just three years, and I'm going to need to change them out for Silicone Bronze during my next haul

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Oct 19th, '10, 08:40

Silicon Bronze...yes they are expensive.

Joef · Post by **Joef** » Oct 19th, '10, 09:40

Men - like most of you, i've read about the issues with these dis-similar metals...but...

...last year, i had and engine out of my boat for tranny repairs. While it was out i decided to relocate 2 seacocks that were located under the front of the engine and were hard to reach and would have been impossible to service. They were 20 year old bronze buck algonquin compression type seacocks. They had 2 3/8inch stainless steel bolts that went all the way through the hull holding them in place. When i took it all apart to remove them, i noticed 2 things...one - the bronze, while crusty and dirty was actually in very good shape and required nothing more than a new rubber plug ( which i rplaced out of guilt, not becasue they leaked) and that the stainless steel bolts were about as perfect as you could imagine...not one hint of corrosion, rust or any other bad stuff.

...and i've noticed this on other parts of the boat - as Sean B noted bad rust on the bolts holding his Zinc plate on...i have 2 3/8 SS bolts holding the same - and they are also perfect, even though that zinc plate gets eatten up half way every year.

...perhaps the type of SS alloy makes a difference - or maybe my boat was just lucky...but for whatever its worth, my boat seems to do fine with quality bronze componenets and 316 stainless bolts.

Anyway - juts thought i'd share that as it would be much easier to find 316SS bolts if its truly not an issue (but - a data set of one is not statistcally significant as we say here at work, so don[t decide only on my experience)

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Oct 19th, '10, 11:35

Last year I pulled and rebeded one of my shaft logs. I was going to have to wait a week for the silicone bronze. Everyone down here NC use SS for shafts, struts, rudders and all fasteners. They told me bronze is old school use SS. I will check yearly for corrission and leaks.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Oct 19th, '10, 12:00

All SS is not the same, especially since a lot (most?) of it must come from China. I have had 2 of 6 screws, purchased and installed on the same day, rust. So much for quality products...

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Oct 19th, '10, 14:50

Capt.Frank wrote: They told me bronze is old school use SS. I will check yearly for corrission and leaks.

They are right, Silicon Bronze IS Old School !!! It goes back to the days when things where done right and expected to last...

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Oct 19th, '10, 15:06

I would trust Nigel Calder's book on this issue... and he says very clearly to not install stainless below the waterline.

Also read what Jamestown Distributors says about stainless

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Oct 19th, '10, 16:55

check out buck algonquins website and catalog. i can order anything they have through AER supply

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 19th, '10, 19:22

personelly i have had bad luck with ss surmerge in salt water and in this case (the struct bolts) are allways painted if nothing else they surely with have bottom paint over them . they bubble up under the paint and turn to rust i have to go with sean especially with critical bolts like on structs. i have another alternative but will start another post.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 19th, '10, 20:42

Okay John
I found dem little buggers in my van......good place for them.....I think everyone needs to keep a set of Strut Bolts in their van.....I bet Harv don't have strut bolts in his van...LOL

At any rate the bolts I have are Bronze Strut Bolts, 3/8-16 and 4" long threaded for a length of 2" and the head is slotted for a screw driver.

You wantem send me your address and I will send them to you. They are brand new.

I am pretty sure that eventually I will find the ones that I did use to mount the port strut a few years ago....they are used but only barely.

hb

scot · Post by **scot** » Oct 19th, '10, 21:10

and will rust away if constantly immersed

Stainless typically comes in these common variations;

18-8: fairly low nickle content, bad for marine service but commonly sold as "stainless" bolting in hardware stores, some marine supplies as well.

410: has more nickle than 18-8, still not really good for marine service.

304: has even more nickle than 410 or 18-8, still not the best for marine service. 304 typically just turns to a rust color red / brown and nothing else happens to it. 304 grade can be used for struts if you don't mind the discoloration. (cast industrial applications call it CF 3M)

316: the good stuff, highest nickle content, ok for basically anywhere you want to use it. (cast industrial applications call it CF 8M)

It is often is simply referred to as "300 series" or "400 series" with 300 being the better for marine service.

What do you guys think the shafts are made of? Typically a high grade SS (300 series) that is has been heat treated to achieve a particular strenght / hardness. Many of the "big name" brands are made of 17-4PH which is a heat treated, hardened SS...and private labeled. Propeller retaining nuts are commonly 316 grade SS, and look the same every time you pull-um.

If a SS bolt rust or corrodes in salt water the base material has too much carbon in it.

Today THE REALLY GOOD STUFF is duplex SS or super duplex SS. These variations of SS are considered "austinetic / furetic" (sp?)...Not enough knowledge to define these blends of meterials. But I will say this is what is being sold into industrial offshore environments where corrosion is really bad...read; $$$$$

I can't speak for the electro properties of bronze / silicon bronze or stainless steel. I do know that bronze should NEVER touch aluminum!! lol.

"thats about all I know about shrimp"

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 19th, '10, 21:29

18-8= 18% Chrome and 8% Nickle

Not sure what the 316 is

but for a long time now my fastener suppliers use 304 and 18-8 interchangably

I just went out on the Sea Spray on Sunday.....10 years ago we built 316 SS Struts and Rudders. Bill tells me that he particularly looks for "Pitting" or "Crevis" attack especially around the welds every year when he does the bottom......so far it's only been 10 years and as of the end of the day on Sunday the Sea Spray had 24893 hours since we built all of his running gear.....no problem.....never even had a cylinder head off of either engine.....oil samples come back "Normal" every time.

What I am saying is that this guy watches everything very close and with absolutely no problems.......and he ALWAYS stays in salt water.

DeNada has SS struts and will soon have SS rudders......hope you guys are wrong.....time will tell cause it's gonna happen

hb

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 19th, '10, 21:41

harry my rudders are 316ss positively . every year when i take the boat out of the water the rudders have some barnacles but no rust however the ss screws holding the baystrainers were ss possibly 8-18 and they started to rust so i replace with silicone bronze. i also have ss bolts in the rudder platforms in the bilge and they are painted awlgrip for some reason they are rusting out so you can conclude the 18-8 is not go in the bilge or in the water another word not in the marine world.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 19th, '10, 22:38

Bob
I have purchased all new fasteners to use on DeNada. The idea that I followed is that I used Silicone Bronze to fasten all bronze details....like rudderports, ball valves and strainers. I purchased my silicone bronze fasteners from www.boltdepot.com

I used all 316 fasteners to attach my stainless steel struts. I use some guys in south Florida for all of my special stuff http://www.fastenerspecialties.com

Ofcourse I will bond everything

hb

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Nov 3rd, '10, 19:46

Okay my friends today my memory actually worked and I remembered to research where I bought my Strut Bolts.

In Pensacola Fla "National Standard"......I talked to Ann.....I believe she told me that she has 6, 3/8 x 4 on the shelf @ $2.75 each and these are Silicone Bronze Flat Head with 2" of threaded area.

Ann told me that she can order more if needed.

I know that John needs 4 more and I think I remember that Bob Lico needed some........Let me know if you guys still need them and I will get ask Ann to order enough for all our needs then ship them to ya.

If you prefer to talk to her directly her number is 850-433-1020

hb

bertram31.com

Source for strut bolts..

Source for strut bolts..

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