Bottom paint Vs Gel coat
Moderators: CaptPatrick, mike ohlstein, Bruce
Bottom paint Vs Gel coat
I have always wondered if there is a noticable diffence in our Bertrams cruising speed when the bottom paint is removed and new gel coat is put on. I have seen the difference in 50kt go fast type hulls but never ours. Guess I have been dreaming about storage on a boat lift instead of in the water. Will it help speed and economy?
Waxed gel coat is a much slicker surface than bottom paint in resistance which equals drag and fuel usage.
Doubt you'd save enough to go to the trouble and expense of putting in a lift, grinding off the bottom paint and regelcoating the surface.
Besides I've seen gel coated boats in the water for only 3 days start to get barnacles. Something to consider if going on trips for any time.
Doubt you'd save enough to go to the trouble and expense of putting in a lift, grinding off the bottom paint and regelcoating the surface.
Besides I've seen gel coated boats in the water for only 3 days start to get barnacles. Something to consider if going on trips for any time.
How 'bout bottom paint that thinks its gelcoat?
http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/diy/produ ... epoxy.aspx
http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/diy/produ ... epoxy.aspx
I don't know what the world may want,
But a good stiff drink it surely dont,
Think I'll go and fix myself...a tall one.
But a good stiff drink it surely dont,
Think I'll go and fix myself...a tall one.
- JohnCranston
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Kevin,
We used that stuff like that when refinishing my B25 about 5yrs ago.
Sandblasted, barrier coated (multiple layer process) then the interlux VC 17 (same stuff?) with a slightly dimpled finish.
Hard bottom paint w/minimal antifouling properties.
Not sure if there's a performance improvement cause I had not previously run the boat.
From 10' it looks like the boat just came out of the mold.
The guy that did the job, suggested that if it stains, then just antifoul over it.
I do leave the boat in the water from time to time for a week or two and other than some scum at the water line that comes off with a soft brush, the bottom looks as good as when I had it done.
There's another guy that frequents this board that used the same stuff and kept his boat in the water on the east coast (salt water).
He'll hopefully chim in the next few days as I think he's on a road trip right now.
Cheers,
We used that stuff like that when refinishing my B25 about 5yrs ago.
Sandblasted, barrier coated (multiple layer process) then the interlux VC 17 (same stuff?) with a slightly dimpled finish.
Hard bottom paint w/minimal antifouling properties.
Not sure if there's a performance improvement cause I had not previously run the boat.
From 10' it looks like the boat just came out of the mold.
The guy that did the job, suggested that if it stains, then just antifoul over it.
I do leave the boat in the water from time to time for a week or two and other than some scum at the water line that comes off with a soft brush, the bottom looks as good as when I had it done.
There's another guy that frequents this board that used the same stuff and kept his boat in the water on the east coast (salt water).
He'll hopefully chim in the next few days as I think he's on a road trip right now.
Cheers,
- JohnCranston
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Kevin,
We went all of the way to the glass. I used to have Micron 33, but, after this last rebuild we decided to re-gel coat the bottom. After a $5k bid to do the gel coat, we went with the VC for $1k. Innerlux said that if we wanted to go back with bottom paint, we could go right over the VC. They said that VC would work as a barrior coat. The boat will stay in our cradle lift and not in the water.
Matt,
After our last pm, half of that punch list is done, and after Steve gets back from Poco, he should finish up the rest next week. If so. I'll let him give me a bid on those coolers. We'll see.
We went all of the way to the glass. I used to have Micron 33, but, after this last rebuild we decided to re-gel coat the bottom. After a $5k bid to do the gel coat, we went with the VC for $1k. Innerlux said that if we wanted to go back with bottom paint, we could go right over the VC. They said that VC would work as a barrior coat. The boat will stay in our cradle lift and not in the water.
Matt,
After our last pm, half of that punch list is done, and after Steve gets back from Poco, he should finish up the rest next week. If so. I'll let him give me a bid on those coolers. We'll see.
I'll never ruin a $50 buzz with a $4 sandwich
- JohnCranston
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Kevin,
Before the Bertram, I had a Pro-Line that came factory with a Donzi (gelcoat) hull. Fast boat. 50 knots wide open, and could cruise at 40 knots.... at least until your dental work came loose anyway.
I grew weary of the whole trailering drill really quick, and started leaving it in the water for a few days at a time. As Bruce said, the hull would get fouled up real quick. After three or fours days of growth, the boat would barely come up to plane. Had to pull it out and pressure wash, scrape, and muriatic acid wash to make it right again. A real PITA.
So I decided to paint the bottom with hard antifoul. The paint stole a lot of speed: top speed reduced to 41 knots, and the cruise speed came down to 30.... it was quite dramatic.
Not a Bertram or even a Bertram-like boat experience... but it's the best I've got
Before the Bertram, I had a Pro-Line that came factory with a Donzi (gelcoat) hull. Fast boat. 50 knots wide open, and could cruise at 40 knots.... at least until your dental work came loose anyway.
I grew weary of the whole trailering drill really quick, and started leaving it in the water for a few days at a time. As Bruce said, the hull would get fouled up real quick. After three or fours days of growth, the boat would barely come up to plane. Had to pull it out and pressure wash, scrape, and muriatic acid wash to make it right again. A real PITA.
So I decided to paint the bottom with hard antifoul. The paint stole a lot of speed: top speed reduced to 41 knots, and the cruise speed came down to 30.... it was quite dramatic.
Not a Bertram or even a Bertram-like boat experience... but it's the best I've got
Sean,
That is very noticable. I was able to run a few boats from the factory in that speed range. I do not remember losing more than 3 knots after the bottom paint was added. This was about 8 years ago........memory might be off a bit.
Bottom painting around here is about 1000 for a decent job. Ten years of that is well more than what I can get a lift for..........if I had a house on the water.
That is very noticable. I was able to run a few boats from the factory in that speed range. I do not remember losing more than 3 knots after the bottom paint was added. This was about 8 years ago........memory might be off a bit.
Bottom painting around here is about 1000 for a decent job. Ten years of that is well more than what I can get a lift for..........if I had a house on the water.
My sailing buddy says wax on paint or gelcoat is actually slow. I forget the product they treat painted hulls with but I can ask him. One of the products they use is teflon based.
I had a Stamas 26 that I ran for the past 5 years or so. It was on a lift and had some bare areas and some areas with 5 or 6 layers of bottom paint. I had it blasted and then I barrier coated and re-applied anti-fowling paint. I picked up 3-4 mph with the small block at the time. You could actually feel the "smoothness" in your feet and in the seat. Later topped out at 43mph per gps with a carbureted 454. That was the perfect powerplant. I regret selling that boat but eventually I'll have my B28 done.
I had a Stamas 26 that I ran for the past 5 years or so. It was on a lift and had some bare areas and some areas with 5 or 6 layers of bottom paint. I had it blasted and then I barrier coated and re-applied anti-fowling paint. I picked up 3-4 mph with the small block at the time. You could actually feel the "smoothness" in your feet and in the seat. Later topped out at 43mph per gps with a carbureted 454. That was the perfect powerplant. I regret selling that boat but eventually I'll have my B28 done.
sean on the dramatic side we have a 32' skater cat at the marina that i test drove 104mph in rolling swells .the first year the guy paid to take it out every week and acid wash. got to be expensive so he bottom painted with a ablative bottom coat .the boat slowed to 97mph quite a differants .he ended up removing bottom paint and restore gel - cote and kept on lift from then on.a expensive lesson learned. oem gel-cote is the fastest but not practical for a 31 bertram that is used to fish next best is barrier cote and top cote of ablative .i have slowed down about 21/2 knots at w.o.t. so far this year .slime and bannacles taking there toll in abnormally warm water .
capt.bob lico
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this may the first time I have heard of a bottom painted Skater- man what goes through people's heads?bob lico wrote:sean on the dramatic side we have a 32' skater cat at the marina that i test drove 104mph in rolling swells .the first year the guy paid to take it out every week and acid wash. got to be expensive so he bottom painted with a ablative bottom coat .the boat slowed to 97mph quite a differants .he ended up removing bottom paint and restore gel - cote and kept on lift from then on.a expensive lesson learned. oem gel-cote is the fastest but not practical for a 31 bertram that is used to fish next best is barrier cote and top cote of ablative .i have slowed down about 21/2 knots at w.o.t. so far this year .slime and bannacles taking there toll in abnormally warm water .
I would beg borrow or steal to have a lift, the look of a boat with no bottom paint is stunning in comparison to even the best bottom paint job, and in the long run you could save yourself money and definitely increase the value of the boat.
We have a customer who HATES bottom paint, he had us remove the paint from his Tiara, I thought he was crazy for bothering with it because he did not even like the boat. His brother in law lives 2 doors down- both Tiaras up on a lift, his has no paint his brother in laws does- they look like 2 different boats, one looks like a turd and one looks like a new yacht
We have sprayed Imron on alot of bottoms, and Skater sprays them on the boats out of the factory
I have had 2 people CLAIM their boats were faster with the Imron then when they had original gelcoat on the bottom. Gelcoat sprayed without the benefit of being in the mold does not have the same quality as re-sprayed gelcoat, but it is still better then bottom paint.
Look at the difference on that Tiara, it is in the backround of the first picture, so much cleaner.
robbie i agree,agree agree BUT life and the marina business being what it is, first you pay up front for the slip at the lenth of the lift . then you pay for the lift at list price plus 40% then you pay the yard electrician at 150.00 a hour to bring in a service to the lift plus electric at 20% markup so the put the cat on a lift was 24,000 a season . thats why he said fu-k it paid the bottom. this was a pleasure boat.
capt.bob lico
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Bob- I meant the lift for someone's boat in their own yard, if you want to run a 32 Skater you know what your in store for.bob lico wrote:robbie i agree,agree agree BUT life and the marina business being what it is, first you pay up front for the slip at the lenth of the lift . then you pay for the lift at list price plus 40% then you pay the yard electrician at 150.00 a hour to bring in a service to the lift plus electric at 20% markup so the put the cat on a lift was 24,000 a season . thats why he said fu-k it paid the bottom. this was a pleasure boat.
I dont know if you could pick a worse boat to put bottom paint on, talk about killing resale no one would want to touch the thing, everyone would think it had some major damage that was covered with bottom paint. You want to play you got to pay.
I thought your marina had high and dry storage? I looked at a Scarab over there and what he told me he pays sounded VERY reasonable, cheaper then a wetslip.
Maybe if I had a marina I would have 2 nickels to rub together!
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From my one design sailing days -
you want
Dry Film Lubricant. Not wax - it will make you slower
you want
Dry Film Lubricant. Not wax - it will make you slower
1977 B31 (315 Cummins) Build thread --->https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-ho ... model.html
2010 Key West Bay Reef | 150 Yamaha
1986 Bertram 28 260 Mercruisers [SOLD]
2010 Key West Bay Reef | 150 Yamaha
1986 Bertram 28 260 Mercruisers [SOLD]
here is a deep pocket dude who will pay the price for no bottom paint.this is a fountain c/c fishing boat not a go fast boat but as robbie said a boat with no bottom paint gets the highest price resale. the lift is practical in your back yard ,at a private marina it is gold!!!
capt.bob lico
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robbie i should have mention one of the yardman ; joe is the go to guy for nice bottom paint jobs. what he did for the guy in the cat was to mix a matching hullside color (red) then painted to 1" BELOW the water line and no bootstripe . the dude only had to run a long handle brush with bleach on scum line . you would never know the boat was bottom painted unless it was out of water block up and see the paint line. he also uses white bottom paint on those 350,000 everglades with fanatical "don`t paint bottom owners ". like i indicated good in theory but a real p.i.t.a. basicly a losing battle to keep the bottom clean, even in light of a dimishing selling price down the road. trailer boat on long island is really tough especially with 35' go fast boat ,very few ramp that long to launch with 36' trailer .you know the story when wheels fall on bottom of ramp -----ouch!!
so they try the forklift with slings to remove boat off trailer and put into water.-expensive!!! the cats can`t go in high and dry do to non -compatible with giant fork lift.
so they try the forklift with slings to remove boat off trailer and put into water.-expensive!!! the cats can`t go in high and dry do to non -compatible with giant fork lift.
capt.bob lico
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your the best! nice work ---back in racing days showing off the trailer was part of the act . a fully crome 40' trailer to carry cat on 30 degree angle was top gun as i remember. tractor trailer had two spare engines in tanden behind cab, and work shop in front. all custom painted. just memories now.
capt.bob lico
bero13010473
bero13010473
JeremyD wrote:From my one design sailing days -
you want
Dry Film Lubricant. Not wax - it will make you slower
Jeremy, my friend sails 505's all over the country. He mentioned a product with some name/acronym like PFPDE. I probably have it all wrong. A teflon product, wipe on, drys in minutes, wipe off. Heard of it?
-Joe
PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene telomer) Similar to the McLube I posted. Some you spray - some you wipe on. Saw a guy apply to his Flying Dutchman once on the trailer (20ft performance boat, narrow beam, around 400 lbs.) he went to launch the boat, forgot to reattach the bow eye. When we tilted the trailer back, to drag it to the hoist, the hole boat slid off the trailer on to the ground... :shock:
It's like magic really if you've never used a dry lubricant before. Works like WD40 - but without the greasy mess.
I used to race 505's too great boat.
It's like magic really if you've never used a dry lubricant before. Works like WD40 - but without the greasy mess.
I used to race 505's too great boat.
1977 B31 (315 Cummins) Build thread --->https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-ho ... model.html
2010 Key West Bay Reef | 150 Yamaha
1986 Bertram 28 260 Mercruisers [SOLD]
2010 Key West Bay Reef | 150 Yamaha
1986 Bertram 28 260 Mercruisers [SOLD]
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