old sea story?

Russ Pagels · Post by **Russ Pagels** » Jun 27th, '10, 11:55

As some may know I'm selling my B31. only to get a new and improved B31. So some guy wants to look at the boat and bring a friend with him who know lots about boats.the friend turns out to be a boat surveyor. and this will be a preliminary boat survey.the surveyor is about 70 years old,and has lots of stories. the one I was interested in was when as a younger Capt.. he was one of a group of Capts. bringing B31's from the factory to Puerto Rico. the time frame would be the when Dick Bertram was still running the show.they would bring the boats over three at a time.He told me that the one he was piloting split in half ,bow to stern and sank. has any one ever heard of anything like this happening?or was this just an old sea story..Russ

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 27th, '10, 13:09

Well, at the moment, BS is going for around a penny a pound in Texas. Don't know the market value in NC....

I have a tendency to believe that if the story was true we'd of heard of it long before now. Now I ain't calling the old capt a liar or anything, but it just doesn't ring true to my ear.

The early B31s, during Dick Bertram's watch, were built like Sherman tanks. I've seen one high and dry on a rock jetty, run onto it at cruising speed, that while the damage to the hull was severe it was still repairable, was repaired, and back in operation in a short time.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Jun 27th, '10, 13:18

Russ,

I think the old capt is posturing to help his buddy negotiate a better price by suggesting these old tanks aren't bullet-proof. The way these hulls are laid up in a split mold, my experience is that the centerline "keel" of the boat is the thickest and strongest part of the hull.

scot · Post by **scot** » Jun 27th, '10, 14:05

Alright that's it....50 cents a pound from here on :-)

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jun 27th, '10, 18:32

My boat , before I got it, was run up on the east jetty on the north side of the Shinnecock canal at running speed. I was told by Gordon Jackson who fixxed it that he has never seen a boat with as little damage from such a crash. I call Sea Story! There is no way it split in two.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jun 27th, '10, 18:54

Maybe that old surveyor is confusing Bertram with Bruno. Those are the only boats I've ever heard of that split- and the entire boating world new of it.

Sounds like a load of malarchy.

Mike Moran · Post by **Mike Moran** » Jun 27th, '10, 20:31

n0w wait a minute I ran two bruno lobster boats one bruno which became nauset they are great sea boats . at one time bruno built balsa cored boats trying to get light hulls water intrusion when people put sounders in ect. did not seal around holes in the hull when water got in to balsa it absorb all the water boats SANK they never split I also had a satnley built like a bertram 31 36 ft ran it through ice ect also split hull cost. built like brick shit house like 31 best boat ever built....... only owned 34 boats bertram is it .

i

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jun 27th, '10, 21:09

Bruno Stillmans are great boats, but unfortunately several 42s split in half .

Whaler1777 · Post by **Whaler1777** » Jun 27th, '10, 22:02

Im calling BS

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Jun 27th, '10, 22:04

I've seen one high and dry on a rock jetty, run onto it at cruising speed, that while the damage to the hull was severe it was still repairable

You talkin on that yellow express that went waaaay upon the rocks on the S. jetty @ Singer Island?
I climbed all over that girl while she was resting at 45 degrees on the rocks. Much less damage to that hull than I'd have wagered on.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 28th, '10, 06:39

That'd be the one... "Sandy Bird"

Russ Pagels · Post by **Russ Pagels** » Jun 28th, '10, 07:41

The story sounded like BS but I thought I would ask the people who know all there is to know about our boats. thanks Russ

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 28th, '10, 08:38

no 31 bertram ever broke up in the high seas . would be in satalite files.i am not going to go into this but the source is here. i am the captain of a 510 bertram and here we are in discussion concerning bertram .sitting on the gunwale is 4 star general commanding officer of the united states air force NORAD general lord.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 28th, '10, 09:07

I think we have all heard about how the 31's were made in split molds and glued and glassed together making the seam a weak point...

Capt Pat addressed this some time ago as BS...Split mold yes...but built as a one piece hull with a heavy layup at the Centerline.

Prior owner of my 31... ran the boat into the Verrazano Bridge Stanchion while fighting a fish...he was only at trolling speed but he pretty much just reversed boat headed away and continued to fight the fish... after he checked for leaks...damage and continued fishing...when he hauled he only found a couple gouges filled them and that was that.

When hand laying up a hull, the mold is tipped over on one side. This allows the workers to layup on a more horizontal surface, making their job faster and more consistent. It also keeps the un-gelled resin from draining down and puddling at the bottom of the mold.

Each side is laid overlapping onto the other side at the keel. Once that side starts to gel, the mold is rolled to the other side and that surface is worked, again overlapping onto the other side. Only a single layer of glass & resin are applied per side before turning the mold.

This process is repeated through the total number of courses in the lay up schedule. This method naturally dictates that the overlapped centerline will be as much as twice as thick as the adjacent area outside of the overlap.

It also makes the centerline much stronger and able to withstand more shock in case of hitting a hard object.

Because a split mold will transmit a line at the joint of the two parts, a heavier layer of gel coat is usually applied so that the line can be sanded out. There is sometimes a faint print which can lead to the confusion of the hull being produced in two parts...

In reality, it would be impossible, especially with the materials, design, and techniques used by Bertram in the period of the B31, to join two half hulls and have them not split apart.

There is absolutely NO way that any of the two part hull mold models were ever produced as two separate halves and then joined together...

Br,

Patrick

I'll ditto the BS comments.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Jun 28th, '10, 09:32

Guy's
It's a BS story. I have surveyed over 30 -31's and looked at aleast a 100 more. I've seen cracks at the keel line from impact damage from either running hard a ground , dropped off fork lifts, cable snapping on travel lifts and wind blowing them off jack stands.
Sandy Bird was the worst, I counted the entire 23 layers of lay-up material at the bow and every strake was split. Pat, Russ and I were there when it was finally pulled out at Cracker Boy. I estamated 80 to 100K to repair it at boat yard priceing, the owner had it done for much less but I would not sign off on the repairs due to the quailty of the repairs. I've heard of a turbo taking out the side of a 31 in Belize and that boat sank offshore, but a hull spliting apart is highly unlikely.
My 1961 is 2-1/2'' thick at the transom keel joint and 1-1/2" near the head intake amidship.
Sounds like he was trying for a better price.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 29th, '10, 07:49

is it possible he meant the crew broke up and split in half? oct. 14 ,1976 at 0530 about 4 miles off the keys a 31 bertram stop and pick up a tan colored bag stencil " product of columbia". " wt 84 lbs" is written by hand. appear to be a new boat .satalite shows two occupants.

Capt Dick Dean · Post by **Capt Dick Dean** » Jun 29th, '10, 08:38

As one guy who has smashed into sand bars all over the Great South Bay, I have first hand knowledge of the the integerity of the boats. The story is bogus.
And another thing! As a senior citizen of the higher end, I say it's early Alzheimer's.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jun 30th, '10, 18:04

After seeing the whupping Katrina put on my poor ole AJ, dropping her on a concrete floor at a 45 degree stern down angle, there is no way these boats will ever come apart, never, never, never. They are just too damn strong. AJ came down on the Capt. Patrick rudders and twisted, cracking both struts and crumpling the props, but the hull was intact with just a few spider cracks around the strut bolts, and no water got in her, depsite FOURTEEN FEET OF WATER in the dry stack building where she was blcoked up on the floor. She came down on top of a huge pile of BlubLiners, Sea Rays, Posts, Contenders, Chris Crafts, etc and was the only boat in the whole damn yard to survive. No accident.

UV

Whaler1777 · Post by **Whaler1777** » Jul 1st, '10, 08:26

Amen UV...

bertram31.com

old sea story?

old sea story?

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