Spent Yesterday shucking all of the old wiring! Got the old engine beds for the 454's out as well........
As you can see by the pictures I had some corossion issues. Found lots of broken wires that will be addressed.
Here's some pictures of the thru hulls, my question is will they accomplish what i'm intending to use them for or do you see some issues in my plan.
A/C Pump Intake
Gen Set Intake
Washdown/Livewell intake
Engine Intakes
Thanks in advance.
-Jay
First: AC pump intake. I am standing with back to bow, bulkhead at bottom of photo is from salon to v-berth........
Second: Generator Intake. you are looking at it on outside of port engine stringer where I plan to mount 3.5kw nextgen.
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third: Washdown and Live Well Intake. This is space between engines. I also plan to put battery box in this location. the large round circle to right going forward in pictue is old transducer housing. not sure what i'm going to do with it.
Fourth and Fifth: Port/Starboard Engine intakes. I have work to do here going up in size to accomodate cummins.
step one is to remove valve,plywood,11/2" thru hole that penetrate bottom along side stringer adjacent to shaft log . these two holes can be reused after enlarging to 2" . trick is to remove valve only then screw temporary piece of wood to existing plywood this will support the pilot bit of hole saw . center 21/8" hole saw in 11/2" hole and drill thru.that is your salt water intakes to port and starboard engines . giff posted a question and that was answer as to proper procedure for thru hole valve. take generator thru hole and after thru hole valve is installed make manifold like everglades boats.this is the best method by far . one thru hole feeds generator/a/c/wash down/bait well,water feed to head. use ball valve on each seperate feed. remove and fill all other holes .captain patrick has hole filling method in tips.
Groco makes really nice ball valve thru hulls. Don't go back with the ball valve on top of a thru hull like you have. The proper thru hull has the flange built into the valve and bolts down to the hull. The outer part of the thru hull then threads up into the sea cock. The separate ball valves have NPT threads while the thru hulls are straight thread. You can clean up that bronze hardware for reuse by dipping it in a mild muriatic acid wash.
if you were to combine them all into 1 (expect engines) what size intake would you need to use? and would the best place to put it still be outboard of the stinger by the genset?
you mention head water intake.....forgot about that...must have another seacock hiding somewhere!
jay i been working on boats some 50 years and for the most part i am open to opinion but thru holes are not one of them!!!!! the manifold is the only way to do it i can`t be more explicit. the best place to built the manifold is under the hatch behind engine compartment .i prefer the port side because the gen. feed is the most inportant so make that first take off .use 11/2" bronze for the tru hole.then valve after this you can go top shelf with bronze 11/2" tees to 3/4" or 1/2" take offs. the 11/2" bronze valve is bonded after that valve you can break stray current by using strong hose between the barbs of take off from valve to next tee.from here on you have many options like make manifold in "u" shape or "L" shape to untilize all the room under hatch with shut off the each component. you can save money with engineered plastic fitting or go bronze all the way.two things you can be sure of 1) thru holes sink ships so the use of few as possible is smart. and number 2) all those barnacle are waiting for you to splash so they can make a home in your thru hole!! not so funny when you can`t close valve when you need to!!! or impede water flow.
jay you cannot see the take off to generator to well but it is the first take off on left of photo . goes to filter then check valve on to gen.the rest is built so i can turn on and off any component at moments notice or routine maintenance.
personel problem i get sick with salt water head . all those little critters swimming around and deoderant to hide creates a smell i hate . i have fresh water head with holding tank in starboard engine compartment absolutely no small what so ever . even have porcelein toilet-- perfect!!!!
Jay just installed 330 qsb electronics and have the same engine intake location, no problem, I have the zf 1.5 trannys and the shifting module{!} on the strb tranny hit the new 235 gal fuel tank when doing the alignment, had new 1 3/4 shafts and new struts which were set at the same target point, measured shaft parallellism[NEW WORD} from centerline and found the strb shaft to be 7/8 " closer to the centerline. Had to slide engine over and rotate the strut a bit, relocate the shaftlog to resolve the problem, my point is to dry fit EVERYTHING prior to final installation
any reason not to put this manifold system in the bildge area between engines? I know i might end up squeezing out room and have to put one battery outboard of starboard engine? as seen in the early picture posts there's a big thru hull there already. seems like to would provide best access to the manifold valves.......?
jay batteries go in center.think like keel of sail boat all weight down center ; fresh water, batteries in boxes, bilge pump, fuel tank all in line. makes lowest center of gravity possible reducing roll . no deviation!!!gen. on starboard ,holding tank same place on port together with head sink vanity and supplies offset each other. like seesaw when you were a kid .put boat in water and use anchor/rode to complete balance in fish box.nothing of weight in v-berth use for raingear/pfd`s,etc .no trim tabs perfect balance .
bob - i thought you had your genset on portside? a mace? maybe that was someone elses?
I hear you on the weight distribution. my water tank is forward of head and all the way buried behind draws on the outward side.....not sure i'm going to dig that far into restoration.....but i'm absoultly hearing you on getting heavy stuff on center line and even distribution of weight.
found the intake for head and thruhull for head discharge.....not that they were hiding.
sorry genset on port holding tank on starboard . trick is to exit waste out of head as most direct as posible. the son of a bitch who use bilge hose on your waste should hang by it !!!! out the back of head directly into engine compartment into holding tank . at bottom of holding tank whale brand 3 way valve input from holding tank output to 11/2" thru hull and the other output to surface mounted waste removal fitting mounted on gunnel. all uscc legal , all waste goes directly to holding tank and you decide when and how to empty, there is no charge to remove or go 3 or more miles in the ocean.i have mascerator built into jabco head ,6 button electric toilet big decision of day what process do you want! ladies can fill toilet and use like home toilet men take a leak use one pint quick flush.never a odor i recommend this toilet if you have family using head.
any other advise on head procedure ----ignore them!!! holding tank outside of cabin you never sh-t were you eat!! engine compartment easy access to whale valve or thru hole valve.
Jay
Those first pictures brought back some very uncomfortable memories. Glad I did it but would I do it again??? Masochism reigns.
Agree with Bob on the batteries. Put my in the salon forward of the water holding tank. Weight low and forward.
Mikey
3/18/1963 - -31-327 factory hardtop express, the only one left.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
-Albert Einstein
dang............ sawsall, grinder, a sledge, ,and 3 hours finally got all of the thru hulls out!! that is a solid hull!! I was second guessing myself the entire time until i got to the forward most water intake for the A/C.......the nut spun off the thru hull with one twist of a pipe wrench....the wood block was completely rotten, a light tap with the sledge and it jumped ship.......i did punt on the head discharge... gonna change the hoses and leave it be. but all intakes will be consoldated.
Bob-
do you use an external strainer on this manifold set up like the engines? my biggest concern is supplying the genset.
dang............ sawsall, grinder, a sledge, ,and 3 hours finally got all of the thru hulls out!! that is a solid hull!! I was second guessing myself the entire time until i got to the forward most water intake for the A/C.......the nut spun off the thru hull with one twist of a pipe wrench....the wood block was completely rotten, a light tap with the sledge and it jumped ship.......i did punt on the head discharge... gonna change the hoses and leave it be. but all intakes will be consoldated.
Bob-
do you use an external strainer on this manifold set up like the engines? my biggest concern is supplying the genset.
jay no strainer on thru hole for manifold ,just straight 11/2" thru hole. i usually check before splash time to make sure no barnacles crawl up there and died even after acid washing bottom when it comes out of water in dec.incidently due to the fact you are supplying genset you cannot use strainer anyway. a definite no, no.
Bob why no strainer on the gen set, I was considering a 11/2 thru hull and valve then tee to 1/2 "baitwell, 1/2" washdown, 3/4" genset, 1/2 "to a/c pump and protected by an external strainer. I also thought about installing normally closed 12 volt solenoids on each of these outlets ,wired to the device ,.so they dont loose there prime when on the boat lift. Capt Pat had some concern with surveyor and solenoids but I would have a main seacock, Intrepid uses solenoid valves in many thruhull situations, any thoughts
i am with capt patick anything electrical in a salt water environment that can go wrong will go wrong at the worst possible moment!!!!-----no solonoids in bilge!!! jay sometimes i may say something that is common practice in the north but a southener would look at me like i had two heads so lets try this; do you guys use heating a home with a radiant floor?????? if so i will continiue with a stoke of genius
The easy way to keep from losing a prime on a raw water system, be it a genset, main engines, or what ever, is to close the ball valve before the boat leaves the water... I do it as standard proceedure on main engines before hauling.
ok then we will go another route. you will have to make manifold by hand with nipples and tee`s no big deal just plan what you needs are in advance so the tee and respective takeoff can face that direction.
i want to get you and me on the same page. there is a scoop thru hull and there is a plain thru hull with external strainer over it like you would use on salt water intakes to engines. that type of strainer would really not be fine enough for frigile salt water & bait well pump.look at my inclosed photo i have a twist off in line stainless filter before pump.a scoop thru hull is a no no will slug gen set but a strainer is ok but the maint. every year to clean holes from critters is a pain in the butt. depending on your water you can use it or leave plain thru hull.
item " D " will cost you somewere around $ 4000.00 because that little baby will slug the genset !!!!!THATS why i said a no no in the former thread. i knew you might get sold into a scoop strainer .item b is a sendure strainer which can go over item E. ok but they tend to foul with little critters . just go with item E and make it easy for yourself. sombody going to come on and say why not one piece groco flanged seacock unit with valve yes that good also and easy.for those of you freezing you balls off in the winter just before manifold put in flush kit to winterize all pumps in one shot . ( not you jay along with the captain keep your guns trained on the river " rio- grande) we will watch the north!!!!
D would be perfect for wash down live well only .that scoop actually accelerates water into thru hull ,helping the pumps but in the case of genset would overwhelm water pump and sent water into intake manifold and then combustion chamber. you can`t compress water!!!!!---------bam total destruction even bent connecting rod 90degrees .
Keep the hose runs on the bilge pumps as short as possible. The one in the stern should exit as direct as possible with the rise kept as shallow as possble. The original one was on the side just under the rub rail. Short run direct and not as much lift as running it straight up and out the transome.
Mid ship again keep as short and direct as possible, same with the one forward.
I was assuming he was putting it as high above the water line as possible. Don't want it too low or you could take in water. Not sure but at most a small loop up but would be pretty hard with good hose that is at least 11/8".
have a nextgen3.5 on the way. they suggested in line water strainer.........any thougths against doing this on genset?? using the external strainer for main engines.........
my water will be coming thru manifold system discussed here, although they (nextgen) was more inclined to reccomend dedicated thru hull for genset.
fishlook thats because they don`t know any better!!! like any inovation the john q public objects to it at first then they open the hatch on a everglades or gradywhite and say wow thats a hell of a good ides and saving a bunch of holes thru the bottom that are subject to problems in the future in addition to slowing down hull speed.
look at capt. patricks solution to drawbacks of a 31 bertram. rudders, his side window installation ,windshield here is the way i see it ; some people make thing happen, some people watch thing happen, and some people have no clue what happen. that is your genset people .there is a tee right after the manifold ball valve that feeds the genset but first it goes thru a screw on filter . what part of smart do they not understand!!!!
go back on page one of this thread and look at the manifold photo .the salt water washdown has a inline,screw off filter .the same filter is coming off the first tee(not visable) from the thru hull ball valve, after the filter is a one way check valve then on to gen set water intake. those 1/2" inline screw on/off filter with stainless screen are available from most on line marine supplys .www.freeportmarine.com----extreme series strainer $26.99. is the one i use.
