Cockpit work - aka "stone soup"

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Mar 17th, '09, 22:06

Doing a little bit of refinishing on my cockpit. While I was at it decided to replace the cockpit panels panels..(pulled some old posts, thanks for the inputs, especially bob). I realized after the nailer thawed out that it was punky (see picture). Anybody now if this loos OEM? I think the wood is mahogany, but it is quite rotted for mahogany. I just noticed how bad it was becasue for the first time this winter I worked on the boat this weeked with above freezing temps. Would like some suggestions on repacement woods or other materials. I have some native NE oak laying around from a logging venture on my property about 20 years ago. Also lots of varieties of left over composite/psuedo woods from various deck and out door projects. Looking for a material recomendation on the nailer that won't give up the ghost. End goal is to make something like the cockpit panel on Dug's boat "Alchemy", with a couple of hatches. Any suggestions...(can't breeak the bank).

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Mar 18th, '09, 08:34

I cannot tell from the picture exactly which part you are talking about being rotten. Can you point it out more exactly?

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Mar 18th, '09, 09:28

Giff,
Looks to me like they're teak... but hard to tell from the pic of course.
I'd stay away from the oak... oak and moisture don't hit it off to well.
I'd also shy away from other woods, definately no starboard (doesn't hold a screw worth a dime)...unless you thru-bolt em..
I recently did a similar replacement on a 48'Pacemaker... I fab'ed up some new flybridge panels, and the teak strips used to anchor the panels were in pretty poor shape after 30years of freshwater runoff. So, I removed 'em, and cut new teak strips to the same size. Then I mapped out the screw holes, and predrilled everything. Next step was to fully encapsulate the teak in epoxy thinned with d.alcohol and let cure, scuff sand, and full strength epoxy app. Then I reattached the strips to the bridge sole with ss screws, first bedding it with epoxy/adhesive filler, and further ensuring sealing by dipping ea. screw in epoxy before attaching. Same with the screws that attach the FB panels to the teak anchors, making sure to wipe the excess epoxy off of the panels of course.
Should be good for another 30 years I'm thinking... Unless someone removes the panels for some reason... Then that could open it back up in the screw holes. But the only real rot was on the very bottom of the teak, where it held the moisture in, with no light, or circulation. If you replaced with just bare, or oiled teak,that'd probably be fine for a few decades as well.
The epoxy can go from friend to enemy if the film is compromised, but it's out of harms way back behind the panels, so I went for it.

Rawleigh,
I think (hope) Giff is talking about the long strip that the wasp&hornet spray is resting on.

Giff,
More about your deck, and substandard fasteners you mentioned later, when time permits....

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Mar 18th, '09, 11:34

Ok, now I get it. I agree oak is not a great choice. I did have a white oak dock that my grandfather built in the 50's lat until the '80's though. I don't think I would trust it on a boat though., What about laminated marine plywood epoxied on all six sides? Obviously you would need to seal the screw holes, or, if it needs to be removable, use stainless steel threaded inserts.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 18th, '09, 12:13

There's a place near me where you can buy mahogany, teak, whatever in almost whatever size you need and they charge by the BF. I'm guessing that there's a place by you where you can do the same thing. I'd bring the strip to them, and get a piece of mahogany or teak that matched. Board that size won't cost much, and will save you alot of time over epoxying up marine ply--my 2 cents.

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Mar 18th, '09, 18:43

Gif, Looks like youve been busy. White oak is the only decent oak for boat building but needs air around it, mostly used for frames and coated w/preservative. I have a sheet of 1" okume plywood I got from Boulter Plywood your more than welcome to a few pieces. Give me a call if you need any help. BH

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Mar 18th, '09, 20:16

Rawleigh, Buju,John,Bob-

Thanks greatly for the inputs. Buju is right, its the strip the can of hornet killer is on..(I am very alergic to them...so its survival of the fittest.,,the hornet hunt can get interesting in my situation) Ok, now I get the oak app. Only for frames makes sense based on your inputs. Was thinking of the old mans 1950's Wheeler I grew up on that was rugged as a stone with oak ribs...but up they definately got air, except for the bottom of the bilge, and then they were well coated. I am not really sure, the wood strip may be teak instead of mahogany. Since I am not really experinced, I just don't know. Sounds like teak is a good choice, so thats what I'll look for.

Bob- Really want to get over to see your project, but have not been getting out of work until around 8:00 Pm lately, so I have not called. Things should free up soon. Will call you soon when I see a calm coming.

On to the fastening....I'll snap a picture of some of what I pulled out. That basic thin shank coated sheet rock screw (deck screw) is what I found in several places. Really pissar. Right now, I want to make what looks ok last, but I see a fiberglass deck in my future. From the picture, and looking at it, it does not look bad, but I am worred about what is under the "skin of the onion".

So, do you think the Epihanes is a good coating for the deck?

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Mar 19th, '09, 06:02

On to the fastening....I'll snap a picture of some of what I pulled out. That basic thin shank coated sheet rock screw (deck screw) is what I found in several places. Really pissar. Right now, I want to make what looks ok last, but I see a fiberglass deck in my future. From the picture, and looking at it, it does not look bad, but I am worred about what is under the "skin of the onion".

Giff, are the screws black or maybe a light green"ish" color?

The black screws are plain 'ol drywall screws made of pig iron steel.

The greenish screws are ceramic coated steel, and have taken the place of galvanized steel screws to be used with the new pressure treated (non arsenic) lumber...the ceramic coating is pretty durable on these.

They also offer ss screw in this style. I seriously doubt they are good quality stainless, but ss nontheless.

Are these screws under bungs? Or what/where? And how long have they been in there?

(warning) I'm going to be trying to talk you into leaving that deck oiled and natural (warning)

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 19th, '09, 08:30

I definitely agree! Walter

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Mar 19th, '09, 15:33

When I replaced my ol'wood deck with a glass one I removed the upkeep factor, which was that Nautilex stuff which is good. But it also made the boat noisier. Hatches rattle a bit and exhaust has a louder note to it. The again the Express kind of captures the noise

tunawish · Post by **tunawish** » Mar 19th, '09, 18:59

I've offered this to a few members before but I'll offer again..

I have a cabinet shop up here in Peabody Ma. we keep 5/4 and 6/4 teak and 5/4 african mahogany, both Suppele and Kai in stock most of the time. Any type of plywood needed that I don't have I can typically get in 1-3 days. It makes me sick to hear you guys buying at Boulter. Although they are nice guys you wouldn't believe what their mark up is. We buy from the same supplier and in larger quantities..
We have 50 sheet pricing so our cost per sheet is pretty good.
I am more than happy to pass along my price to any one here that needs anything I can provide. On larger orders I can probably have it delivered to you by our various suppliers or you can come by and pick it up.

Whatever my costs are are what you pay. On small items I can mill the solid stock to the sizes you need or cut up the plywood for you at no charge while you wait...

Just let me know if I can help, I've already been paid as I see it by being a member here...

contact info tunawishrp1@aol.com
Ray

hubris 1 · Post by **hubris 1** » Mar 19th, '09, 19:26

LMAO! Ive never seen a boat with hornet killer on it. Maybe you dont have gaff..........just spray em!

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Mar 19th, '09, 21:01

Ray,

That's a very generous and commendable offer! Thanks

Br,

Patrick

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 19th, '09, 21:24

ray.....i need 16/4 white pine. (or 12+ if thats unavailable) dosent have to be clear but large knots far apart are preferable to lots of small ones. any board length....the wider the better. i was getting it from a friend who went to a mill in vermont and got stock for flooring. any help more than appreciated. thanks

patrick...i just looked at the post counts....3 apart after 1700. totally meaningless info .

tunawish · Post by **tunawish** » Mar 20th, '09, 05:09

Randall I'll make some calls to suppliers this morning, what's the min width you can use??

Capt Pat, Thanks ..It's not like we're lighting the world on fire here so I figure at least put this equipment to some use...

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 20th, '09, 08:25

15 , 16 inches but have gotten wider in the past....thanks alot.

tunawish · Post by **tunawish** » Mar 20th, '09, 08:33

just sent you a pm

bertram31.com

Cockpit work - aka "stone soup"

Cockpit work - aka "stone soup"

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