Oil change pump advice needed

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 7th, '09, 15:58

My jabsco pump/bucket combo died today. It used to work ok for oil changes even with cold oil. Looking for better pump if there is one.

I borrored a beautiful reverso pump system from my yard today and it did not have enough arse to prime the impellar I think. Just birped and garbeled even with hot oil

My oil plugs are not accessible and I will never intall engines again without first making oil change system.

I need a pump that is strong enough to suck out oil through dip stick tube utilizing nylon trim tab pump line. Any ideas? Basically needs to be able to suck golf ball thru garden hose.

Spent my only day off in bilge, made a mess and accomplished nothing. Very frustrated.

Sign on boat will read "for sale just needs oil change"

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 7th, '09, 16:21

Kevin- I assume that you are using an electric pump. I have had good success with hand drill powered pumps. Craftsman (sears) has a decent one. Jabsco makes one as well, and I think theirs comes with the adapters and hose to use for oil change via dipstick.

There are others around, but they are real junk. I hope this helps.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 7th, '09, 16:43

A gear pump is the way to go.
I've been using the same one for 25 years and no problems after thousands of oil changes, fuel transfers and even pumping out dirty bilge water.

But the reverso brand pumps/ motor are expensive.

You might check for your brand and find out if you can get a replacement gear pump to fit on your motor.

Grainger is a good source.

Glen Snader · Post by **Glen Snader** » Mar 7th, '09, 17:34

I have used a a system that is a gas can with a vacuum pump. It only stored about 2.5 gallons but worked great. I also used it to remove sediment from my gas tank. It used elbow power and it was not hard to use.

Glen

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 7th, '09, 19:59

i have a hand pump that works fine...got it at worst marine. holds about 5 quarts and then you have to empty it......but it starts every time. its the only tool i own where i am praising it by sayin...."it sucks"

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 8th, '09, 19:58

Yeah it is an electric pump. I recrimped all the connections to be sure it was not corrosion. A couple good whacks with a wrench and the pump turned on for about 10 seconds but did not sound that good. Stopped again and more whacks did not make it turn on again.

So a gear pump still needs a motor? Can a cordles drill be used?
I found the price really varied online. 100-1000. Not realy sure what I am looking at vs what I need.

I did try the Jabsco hand pump that came with the boat and no go. Probably why the oil was so dirty and chryslers failed.

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Mar 8th, '09, 22:55

Kevin,

I picked up something very similiar to this a few years ago, and it still works great:

vacuum oil changer

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 9th, '09, 08:19

Kevin,
Pull the back plate on the motor. It sounds like it could be worn brushes or a dirty commutator(the copper segments the brushes ride on).
The commutator can be cleaned with 600 wet/dry.

Pay carefull attention to any spacer washers and make sure if there are any they go back in. They will be on the shaft between the bearings and windings. Could be in the front, rear or both.

If you get any pump with a shaft, you can hand crank it without a motor.

The pump like you got the motor shaft goes into the pump.

Teel(grainger) makes a gear pump with a shaft the uses a coupling to drive off a motor.

Hand pumps like that which has been mentioned are good for your size engines and the once a year oil change.

The thing about the hand pumps is the oil has to be hot especially if your trying to draw oil thru a 1/4 tube.

The bigger the suction hose or inlet, the easier the flow.

Jabsco used to make a hand bilge pump that I've seen many sailboaters have hooked up to their engines for changing the oil.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Mar 9th, '09, 09:17

kevin
a little trick if you dont have the male threads on the oil stick, any cable co. should have rubber sleeves that go over the connection on the pole, slip one on the small hose then over your oil tube, makes a nice seal and the oil should pump out like it was made for it.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Mar 9th, '09, 10:45

Provided the Steyr dipstick goes to the bottom. My Chrysler ones do not!

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Mar 9th, '09, 12:33

Sean
The unit that you displayed is exactly the one that I use.....works great....we refer to it as the "Little Green Pig"

I was gonna photograph mine this afternoon and post it later this evening.

The suction tube actually slides inside of the dipstick tube of my gassers all the way to the bottom of the pan. I am not sure but I think the Cummins dipstick tube is actually larger than the gasser tubes.

Harry

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Mar 9th, '09, 14:37

Kevin you have Steyrs correct? If you do then try getting a hose or rubber fitting to seal over the dipstick tube end then suck from there. Sr has the 236's and thats what he does. Think he even started using that little handrill pump you get at Sears. Real quick and EZ. Defintely beats insertng the little tube down the dipstick.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Mar 9th, '09, 15:19

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think the dipstick tube extends to the bottom of the oil pan......at least on the engines that I am familiar with.

Sucking the oil out by means of a hose clamped onto the end of the Dipstick Tube is more than likely leave a fair amount of old oil in the pan.

Harry

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Mar 9th, '09, 15:30

sim
that was what i was trying to explain

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 9th, '09, 16:27

don`t you dare do it harry don`t even think this about this nonsense your our hero .anybody who works with a micrometer would not have the balls to think about removing oil from a cummins god forbid the dipstick.the rear bottom of a cummins oil pan has a bulb contour and pocket to catch the heavy metals and sediment.9/16 nft fitting and matching theaded hose fitting with 1/2" id coast guard blue hose brought to the side of the bellhousing even with the starter motor and a threaded cap .remove cap a attach to geared 12volt motor and remove cold oil (so you shake up sediment) leave the other guys who piss in a glass then throw overboard then pour a beer in same glass.---------no class

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 9th, '09, 17:47

I need to call Horizon East and find out the internal depth of the filler tube for the Steyr 236. I know that I was leaving about a quart behind out of 11. Trim tab line will not make it past the where the pressed on tube meets the fitting in the pan casting. I did also figure out how to get to the bottom of the pan with no problem but forgot to mention it. There is another nipple ower in the pan that is atached to rubber hose. That hose goes verticle about 6" into plastic cylinder. I am guesing the cylinder is some sort of emissions device. Pull off the top of the rubber and the nylon line fits right to the bottom of what I think is the pan. I thought rubber degraded with oil though so not sure.
I am going over to take pictures right now.[/img]

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 9th, '09, 18:26

[img][img]http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z170/1kevinmehegan/th_Steyr001.jpg[/img][/img]

Hopefully this explains my last post. The left tube is the dipstick tube and the right is unknown to me but there is oil in there and goes to bottom I think.

Terry Frank · Post by **Terry Frank** » Mar 9th, '09, 20:12

you need to talk to Capt. Patrick and post up your ideas about installing Cummins. like in his tips section.last year I had a guy install a pair of 6Bt210 with yf gears, yeah way underpowered iknow but like Walter i love them. wish I had really known about the oil removal and fuel filter changing. I would have had them put my racors back where i had the ones for the gassers. exactly where they are easy to change. not where you have to lay on top of a hot engine block. like in your pictures. now you tell harry how to install the oil change ideas. talk to Capt.Pat and maybe make a new tips section. P.S. I'm happy to get off the dock at 3 knots. love ya...mean it.

Terry Frank · Post by **Terry Frank** » Mar 9th, '09, 20:15

forget harry bob. too many wines. Meaning to say be clear and post the oil changing ideas. Wish i was hanging out with Thudd.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 9th, '09, 23:01

ok terry i will give it a try however i cannot put the arrows in the illustration to pin point what i am talking about.i became nervous when harry started to comment on removing oil through dipstick.my personel opinion don`t bother leave the damn oil in the engine for the life of the diesel because what your doing is totally useless in a cummins/yanmar diesel!!!!! now the explanation this is a cummins oilpan but the yanmar is similar (note none of this applies to gas engine) i presume you want to do the right thing with 50,000 worth of iron.

notice the oil windscreen it bolts to a oil baffle plate so you cannot physically put some tube down the oil dipstick and retrive all the setiment.the heavier then oil crap fall into the bulb at the back of the pan and also the lowest point (due to the angle of the installed engine).ok here is how you rectify the problem. take what ever oil you can thru the dipstick then throw thar hold tube configuration in the garbage. you will have at least 2 quarts left in the pan.put oil diabers under pan then find largest pan that will fit under oil pan and unscrew bolt as indicated in the diagram at rear of pan remove all old oil and take bolt to a hose manufacturer and have him make up two foot of hose with that same thread at one end and a 3/8 npt MALE at other end buy brass cap and screw on lightly push between engine and gear until even with starter motor .tie wrap to engine at this point you are finish no more mess just attach hand pump,gear pump or cheaper drill powered pump. don`t matter oil is being pulled through 1/2" id hose.this is the completed picture hose is blue mounted next to block.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 9th, '09, 23:02

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Mar 10th, '09, 00:05

Actually my Cummins are equiped with the "Blue Hose" screwed into the oil pan.....setup for oil removal.

My gassers were not setup that way and I removed the oil thru the dipstick.

As so often happens these conversations get quite turned around.....I understood Kevin to say that his PUMP died. He was looking for suggestions on a new pump. He also stated that he did not install an oil change system, leaving dipstick suction his only choice.

Kevin wrote:My oil plugs are not accessible and I will never intall engines again without first making oil change system.

The pump that I use is exactly like the one that Sean featured in his post....which will fit just fine down into the "Blue Hose" and remove the oil.....without wires and batterys......the ole Armstrong method....very reliable

Harry

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 10th, '09, 04:02

harry you restored my faith in the mechanical wizard on this board.actually i would change the hose on the pump so that you match the thread on the end of the retrival hose and increase the volumn tenfold.

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 10th, '09, 07:48

the beauty of the hand pump is the hose goes to the bottom of the pan. its kinda like my cockpit wash down system. bulletproof.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 10th, '09, 19:29

Well thanks for all the great input.

I took the electric motor apart and found some rust and debris in the housing and coil windings. Blew out with compressed air and hit it with copious amounts of CX. Put is back together and worked great in one direction. It was also the direction I needed fortunatly.

I decided to make reduction system with proper hoses and fittings. I used the hose on the right in the above photo. Nylon tubing bottomed out on the pan. Pump was able to suck out cold oil. I know it is not the best way to do the oil change but it is what I have. I do the oil at proper intervals and it is synthetic per the manufacturer.

Thanks again for all the ideas. Normally would not have tackled electric motor but since Bruce mentioned taking it apart I outta give it a shot. I guess CX saved the day again.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 10th, '09, 19:46

Warm up the engine a bit to thin viscosity. The oil will come through more quickly. Walter

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 10th, '09, 20:21

Was running out of daylight but will do it next time. Did not refill them yet either. Since there should not be any oil I am going pull the plug that I can get to standing on my head. A very small pan will fit under to catch and measure how much I am missing. Will put the hose set up Bob is talking about to make the next one that much easier. Pretty sure the other engine will have to come out to do the same thing.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Mar 10th, '09, 20:39

Now you guys have me curious. I have to check my neew 270 cummins this weekend. They came through with a manual oil change option. There is a hand pump right on the engine. The dealer says, it works like a charm and it was a cheap option. I think it was only something like $20.

I am hoping the hose is attached to the pan as Bob describes.

jackryan · Post by **jackryan** » Mar 17th, '09, 22:40

Randall,

I missed the description of your bullet proof cockpit wash down system. What do you use for a wash down pump?

JR

bertram31.com

Oil change pump advice needed

Oil change pump advice needed

Bob Lico Cummins

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