Titanium on your boat

[jspiezio]

I notice a lot of guys discussing using titanium on your boat in place of more traditional materials. I have a lot of experience designing, machining, and fabricating with titanium. So, i just want to share a few points with you guys. It is fantastic for use on boats, for all intents and purposes it does not corrode. It is very light, and very strong.

1) Aircraft titanium is not the same as marine titanium. Most aircraft titanium is 6al-4v, the remainder is 6Al/6V/2Sn. These are alloys designed to be very hard, thus more brittle. While they can be used, they are susceptible to stress cracking. Be careful when using these, only certain "grades" of these should be used, if at all. You should be using what is called "commercially pure" or "CP" titanium.

2) Titanium does not bend like steel or iron or aluminum. It can be done with the right processes, but it often fails if attempted incorrectly. Machining titanium is difficult, and machining aircraft titanium is very difficult. Bridgeports and light CNC will have difficulty taking heavy cuts. Sawing it requires the correct blades on your band saw.

3) Titanium is a high Noble metal. It will cause cathode corrosion in dis-similar metals and must be insulated from contact with other metals, e.g. aluminum, iron, steel.

4) Welding titanium is a real bitch

5) Titanium, especially chips and dust, is flammable. Don't use torches to cut it.

Titanium is a great material with a lot of advantages, and very few disadvantages. But like anything else it is not perfect. If any of you are planning on using titanium and want to talk about machining it, or sawing it, or anything else, just let me know. It is expensive stuff and ruining it would be a real downer.

[bob lico]

real hard to drill with a hand drill!! but takes threading real nice. also gets along with bronze on noble scale.excellent on bertram as a fish plate
(backer plate) on top of coosa board or marine ply above water line like in radar arch or tower where strenth is the utmost inportants.that 1/4" fiberglass on the bridge sides is not that strong supporting radar arch with 4kw open array radar ,lights,antennas,gps cautus.i love it!

[jspiezio]

real hard to drill with a hand drill!! but takes threading real nice. also gets along with bronze on noble scale.excellent on bertram as a fish plate
(backer plate) on top of coosa board or marine ply above water line like in radar arch or tower where strenth is the utmost inportants.that 1/4" fiberglass on the bridge sides is not that strong supporting radar arch with 4kw open array radar ,lights,antennas,gps cautus.i love it!

Bob- The key is low surface speed and high chip load. So you want to get the drill turning slow but push like a SOB into the material. Also, lots of coolant.

What happens is this-

a) You heat the surface of the titanium as you cut it;

b) the titanium surface gets harder from the heating;

c) if you don't take a deep enough cut your cutting edge hits the hardened surface, rather than going beneath it and into "the soft white underbelly", so to speak.

Most people try to take light cuts, as they would in steel or inconnel. But that doesn't work with ti, in fact it hurts. You cut ti with a similar chip load to aluminum. If you've got stuff to do, let me know, I can probably help you, If time allows I might be able to do it for you.

[bob lico]

thank you for the offer.i had to put 1/2" holes in the engine mounting beds and i kill myself pushing as hard as i could with a 1/2" hand drill.i would never do this on a customers boat this is my own boat so labor is no object but there is a point when it does get ridiculous.

[jspiezio]

thank you for the offer.i had to put 1/2" holes in the engine mounting beds and i kill myself pushing as hard as i could with a 1/2" hand drill.i would never do this on a customers boat this is my own boat so labor is no object but there is a point when it does get ridiculous.

Bob- doing it by hand is really difficult. You should put it in a bridgeport or a good drill press at the least. here are very good drills for drilling thru ti available at MSC, but for you it would be best to go to or call Sag Supply in Deerpark (631-586-1768). Ask for John or Rocky, tell them what you are trying to do and they will take care of you. Really anyone on here who wants advice on mill supplies, they are really good guys and will ship.

One more KEY piece of advice- do not ever use cutting oil as a coolant. The cutting edge will slip and not cut. In addition, it will burnish the material, further hardening it against cutting.

[CaptPatrick]

Joe, thanks for the technical run down on titanium.

I remain on the train of thought, (goes all the way back to when we were discussing titanium shafts 8 or so years ago), that titanium used on a boat like the old Bertrams, is an extreme overkill choice of materials.

If you've got some and can make it work for a particular application, that's fine, use it. And if you can buy scrap for the same price as another metal, that's a valid reason to maybe select titanium over another metal. If you just want to have a conversation piece to elevate your pride of accomplishment, that's cool too.

But for all practical and cost effective solutions on a pleasure craft, the use of titanium in any form, (other than the manufactured components of something like the Styer engines), is just not necessary. Again, if ya' got it, flaunt it, but don't go buy it thinking that it's going to make any significant difference in the quality of your boat projects.

Adding strength to fiberglass skin is not achieved by metal backing plates. A backing plate is simply a giant multi port washer that spreads the torque load of tightened nuts and bolts, protecting the sandwiched pad material from crushing. Strengthening the fiberglass skin is dependant on increasing thickness, (compression/tension ratios), and increasing the surface area to spread the loading forces of a particular situation, (weight of riggers/antenaes/towers on a 1/4" bridge face, shock loading for strut pads, gunnel stiffening, etc.).

Again, just my story and I'm stickin' to it...

Br,

Patrick

As a side note of little importance, but nifty concept, I played with titanium back in the '70s at UofH Fine Arts Department while learing metalsmithing. Fabrication was kept to the simplest of techniques just because of the machining/welding difficulties that Joe pointed out.

Now the neat thing was after the item was finished, (whatever it was), we'd subject it to various electrolite baths, current densities, and durations to achieve absolutely crazy colors. This was not a plating operation, but a process that made the metal change color spectrums inherent within the titanium itself, actually an anodization process. The electrolytes included: Coca Cola, orange juice, various heavy acids, and even urine to name just a few of the more "off the wall" materials.

Now for consideration as jewelry, the inert properties, light weight, and durability of titanium can be a great choice.

Those were the fun days of experimenting just for the sake of experimentation...

[jspiezio]

Capt P- Those are cool earrings. I wish I had a damned creative bone in my body. I am afraid to ask what other experimentation was going on at the U of H in the 70s.

About your opinion concerning titanium on a boat, well I couldn't agree more. It is completely overkill. I have several hundred pounds or more of surplus plate and bar laying around at anytime and I have never used it on a boat. But it seems like a lot of folks are thinking of using it when they customize, kind of like tricking out a bike or hot rod i guess. So i just wanted to offer my help if they want it. Hey maybe we'll get our own tv show like the boys at Orange County Choppers.

Monitor Aerospace is a very large machine shop here. Back in the 80s the owner had a 54 Bertram. He had all hardware in the cockpit, e.g. cleats, rod holders, etc fabricated out of ti in his shop. It was a conversation piece and selling point with customers while they were cruising or fishing. It was pretty cool to see, but way over the top for me.

[Carl]

Hey Capt Pat, I think I have some of those in my freshwater tackle box...but mine have hooks.


Cool looking, really just a bath produced that...I love that kind of stuff, thanks for the info.

[CaptPatrick]

I am afraid to ask what other experimentation was going on at the U of H in the 70s.

If it was experimental and within my grasp, I pretty much gave it a go. Never coupled up with the Tim O'Leary crowd, but only being 5 yrs out of the Navy and a young hard belly, I was taking advantage of the waining hippy dippy culture and those free lovin' flower chicks... Alice who??

[Carl]

Monitor Aerospace is a very large machine shop here. Back in the 80s the owner had a 54 Bertram. He had all hardware in the cockpit, e.g. cleats, rod holders, etc fabricated out of ti in his shop. It was a conversation piece and selling point with customers while they were cruising or fishing. It was pretty cool to see, but way over the top for me.

These things are recreational boats...nothing is a neccesity, it's all good!
Ti floats your boat...use it. If Kelvar for a HD lightweight windshield wrap makes your winky nod, then buy a second as a spare with my blessing. Wanna use 130 unlimited setups on yellowfin...go for it.

Yup...it's all good.

[bob lico]

you know me by now capt patrick i always leave out half the explanation so here goes on that tower backer the round circular plate at foot of each tower leg is about 3" in diameter.on the inside i have 3/4" marine plywood 10" long by 5" wide with same size titanium plate over plywood so nuts will nut did in.both of you guys sum it up the titanium was free and if the shoe fits wear it!!

[CaptPatrick]

on the inside i have 3/4" marine plywood 10" long by 5" wide

Ma' Man!

I knew there was a drop or two of practical Scotch blood in your veins somewhere... The ply ain't in the bilge, will never get wet, (short of sinking the boat), strong, & cost senseable. Better than an inch between outer skin surfaces; stiffer than 15 yr old's pecker...