Concealed carry questions...

[Harry Babb]

Thanks Guys,
Frank, that is a good website. I will read more on the site later tonight. I don't travel frequently but I do visit Texas, Virginia, Florida South Carolina and Tennessee. I see that Virginia and South Carolina do not honor my permit.

One more scenario here.....I find myself in a state that does not honor my permit. I decide not to take a chance and carry my weapon. If I unload it and lock it in the glove box and store the ammo in the console or my brief case am I then considered unarmed and not subject trouble with the law?

Harry

[mike ohlstein]

Not OK in NY, unless you're passing through and only stopping for fuel....or if you are participating in a shoot in the state and can prove it.

Although if Plaxico doesn't go to jail, I'm going to start to carry.... (which I'm not allowed to do...even though I have a permit to hunt with one)

[CaptPatrick]

I see that "training" is highly recommended. Any particular type, vs. practice? Are we talking about extricating it from the holster type thing, or just decision making overall? Or gun handling...

There's a distinct difference between "training" and "practice".

Training, (as pertains to firearms), is a supervised course of instruction tailored to meet the requirements of either, or both, a State Regularity Commission or the individual being trained.

In the case of applying for a CCW, the instructor & course must be state approved. These courses usually only cover the basic requirements set forth by the state to assure that the trainee has been fully instructed in those state requirements. Depending on the state and instructor, this basic training can be as short as 2 hours or as long as 10 hours. It usually includes education of the pertaining laws, gun safety, proper CCW principals, and actual "hands on" range instruction to assure that the trainee has, at least, the basic ability to safely handle a hand gun. Again, the scope and depth of this course will depend on both the issuing state and the instructor.

In the case of advanced training for civilians, no state intervention is required, other than to abide by the state's laws, and the instructor(s) is free to train for any particular discipline; practical, tactical, competition, self defense, etc.

Most people who apply for a CCW don't train any further than the basic state required course(s) and seldom even spend much time practicing what they learned or practicing their skills on the range. Those people are putting their faith in the hope that the occasion to put to use their CCW basic training will never come to pass, but they, (falsely), think that they are ready to defend themselves, should the need arise.

Practice does make perfect.

But just going to the indoor range and blasting paper silhouette targets is only honing the ability to calmly and accurately shred inanimate and passive paper within a controlled environment. Unfortunately, that kind of practice, has very limited value on the street against an aggressor who is probably also armed, never passive, probably doped up, and intent on his objective: YOU or SOMEONE ELSE in your presence.

Defensive gun training takes a lot of psychological conditioning as well as the mechanical/practical aspects of gun handling.

There are courses and instructors that offer these advanced training exercises to the private citizenry, but they can be very expensive. My suggestion to the average citizen looking for an advanced style training is to find and join a local club that focuses on practical shooting with hand guns. The targets are still just paper and inanimate, but the setting is usually outdoors, set in a variable course layout, and simulating, to some degree, a possible and closer to real life scenario. Points are scored based on time and accuracy, so there's more of a competitive and physical nature to the practice than is experienced at an indoor range shooting down a individual firing lane.

Clubs also have the advantage of group feed back, idea and experience sharing, occasional discounts through membership, and a far lesser price tag than formal instructor training.

Practice is not only on the mechanical/technical level... (Nor does it just pertain to guns and CCW permits.)

Mental practice is as, if not more, important to hand gun proficiency when/if a real life or death situation occurs. One's ability to think clearly, calmly, quickly, and correctly under pressure and stress will, almost without exception, far out weigh his/her proficiency to operate a piece of equipment. Guns are just equipment, nothing more, nothing less.

I think that the most beneficial mental exercise to prepare for any potential situation is playing the "What If" game. And play it for every imaginable situation that you might encounter in life. The game can be played between two or more people or only within your own mind, but it must be played on a very frequent and conscious level.

To play the game, conjure up a situation, calling it "What if {blank} happens?" Then think about "What will be my possible actions/responses and what are the potential outcomes of my action/responses", There is usually no single action/response for any given situation. You must comprise a mental list of the possible actions/responses that might best be in your favor. Play out every option on your list, try to analyze the imagined results, pick the best solutions and replay the situation & options in your mind's eye repeatedly and regularly until you're comfortable with your conclusions. When and if this situation does arise, very little additional thinking has to be expended because you've already, at a more leisurely pace, programmed your list of options. Action can be applied almost automatically if you're prepared and well rehearsed...

Don't think that you're John Wayne on the Silver Screen. Your mental list of options must be tailored to meet your own real mental and physcal abilities.

Other areas that you can improve your abilities include physical training, stamina exercise, & mental exercise through games. Consider a martial arts style self defense program. Your potential encounter with Sammy Scumbag could, & likely would, be at very close quarters...

Ever stop to think that almost every oriental and Israeli is trained in hand to hand combat, of some sort or another, from childhood? They would be my last choice of who I might think of sticking a gun in the face of. A Lot of other cultures have a similar up bringing, but I perceive most Americans as not being able to duke their way out of a paper bag...

Br,

Patrick

[thuddddddd]

dug, you got something in mind , let me know

[Harry Babb]

Harry, ya need to get rid of some of them s.s. bertram emblems?

Those emblems were given to me by a friend that was restoring a 31 years ago, then he gave up.

DeNada will be sporting those emblems and her new bow chock when she splashes later this year.

I will be looking for a pair of the Eagle Insignia's for DeNada some day.

My emblems are brand new and probably 15 years old.

Harry

[nestorpr]

I am a .45 ACP fan from way back and can't say enough good things about it however, a while back a friend of mine gave me a little Beretta 70S .380 ACP that he didn't want in the house any longer and it's a sweetheart to shoot, also very compact and comfortable in the hand. With Hornady's new Critical Defense ammo (doesn't clog with clothes) it has more than enough penetration for any gunfight and always expands to twice it's diameter. Guns and Ammo TV did a test recently and the old stigma is gone, the .380 ACP is now a great self-defense cartridge. I can group 5 shots in less than 2 inches at 25 yards with her and that's more than good enough for me!

[Kingfish]

Anyone outside The Republic of Kalifornia has it pretty good in most cases.

We have so many laws even the LEO'S can't keep up with them.

Take an AR 15 semi. To be legal in CA. it has to have a bullit button installed for 10 rd. mags, so they cannot be changed quickly, you need a tool to change mags.. Forget 20 & 30 rd mags. they're banned!

In order to use 20 & 30 rd. Mags. I have to go to my sons in AZ.

With Obama coming to office the shelves of local gun dealers have depleted.

Rant over.

Lets not even talk about CCW in Kali !!

[daydreams]

Hi guys, I also have a S&W 38 special and a S&W 357 magnum with a 5" barrel. The 357 is great to shoot 38's. On long Island [NY], when people cant' get a carry permit [which is hard to get] They get a target or hunting permit, join an all night range and carry always on their way to the range.

[In Memory Walter K]

When I lived in Nassau County, LI Edelman's Gun Club was a 24 hour target range that you were always going to or coming from. Walter

[daydreams]

Edelmans sporying goods and I believe the range went out a few years ago. I think they still offer a service to get pistol permits only.

[BCBertie]

I don't know how many have shot in the dark or low light but depending on the gun and ammo you can have quite the muzzle flash. Almost the same as looking into a flash for a camera.

This increases in intensity in small rooms and brightly colored walls. Add to that the noise and after the first shot disorientation is very real along with partial blindness which makes lasers, nite sites and the such unless.

So for many if your first shot misses, you've lost any advantage you've had.

This was my first CC pistol:




The muzzle flash in daylight is astonishing! And the noise!

On the one hand, if you're being confronted by the typical punk/street thug, you'll scare the bejeezus out of him, and the confrontation will end with him running as fast as he can in the opposite direction. OTOH, if the opponent is serious, you've just given him a *very* good target. Hope he was close enough that I didn't miss...


Seriously, this thread has had a lot of good info in it. I just want to re-emphasize how important awareness of your surroundings is. The greatest chance of long term success is to avoid the potentially dangerous situations in the first place.

Cheers!

John

[randall]

john.....that last sentence is the most important one in this thread in my opinion. i have never carried...and have unfortunately looked at the wrong end a few times from very close range. but i am still here. awareness ,anticipation and common sense are more important than anything else.