ULSD diesel fuel

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Apr 15th, '08, 19:26

Something to think about with the new diesel:

http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/ ... opic=37859

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Apr 15th, '08, 21:36

I am confused.. I hear from some people that you need to replace the lost lubricity of the sulfur with an additive.. others swear it is a sham and a waste of money. Who to believe? I will be very interested to see what Bruce has to say!

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Apr 15th, '08, 21:47

The effects of ULSD in the transit fleets I work with isn't noticeable at this point. They have been running this stuff in one of the worst operating cycles a diesel can see Transit.
There are some folks that swear by adding a gallon of TCW3 ashless 2 cycle oil to pre 2007 vehicles with no negative effects. The oil is suppose to even quiet them up a little on the top end. I personally don't know and am not sure I want to try.
None of the Cummins distributors I work with (Maine to FL) have said much about having issues caused by ULSD. Most of the new issues are EGR and Turbo. Very little fuel pump or cylinder issues on the transit side. There is a loss of fuel mileage when comparing apples to apples over the road. When coupled with the EGR and DPF filters the mileage does nose dive considerably.
If I were running older 2 cycles I'd certainly consider the option of adding lubricity to the fuel. I've not seen any indication that the B or C series Cummins engines are suffering as a result of ULSD.
My 2 cents

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Apr 16th, '08, 10:00

JP...

I have only owned my boat for about two years, and since it was a "project boat" with good 1998 Cummins 6B 315HP engines with only 550 hours, and a typical solid Bertram hull, I have been working on it occasionally and not yet used it very much. These are my first diesel engines.

A while ago I asked both Tony Athens of the Boatdiesel forum, and my local Cummins guy, about using ULSD. I have the utmost respect for both these guys. Both said there is no need to add anything to the fuel to deal with the lubricity/sulfur issue. Tony said I could add common engine oil in a 1:50 ratio if it would make me feel better, sort of going back to the two cycle small gas engine days. My local guy said to add BioBor if I felt I have a algae concern. The last time I took on fuel I topped off my 260 gal tank by putting in 105 gal of Valvetect (sp?) fuel, and nothing else.

Reading the string Rawleigh referred us to I get the feeling that there are two major differences between those users and us.. First, they are in a much colder climate than most of us are, and second, they turn their fuel over much more frequently than most of us do.

I read others saying their favorite additives are necessary, with dire predictions if I don't do anything to my fuel. I feel as if I am "damned if I do and damned if I don't!" I suspect I am not alone in this regard. I read everything I can on this subject, if I believe it is generated by impartial users.

I will wait and see.. in the meantime I will not add anything but the BioBor when I next refuel.

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Apr 16th, '08, 10:50

This is what I use = http://fppf.com/lubricityplusfuelpower.asp

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Apr 17th, '08, 08:54

Rawleigh,
How about your bio-diesel? Thinking of using that. Made here, keep the $$$ here.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Apr 17th, '08, 09:38

I just put a tank full of B100 in the truck on Monday. It always amazes me how quiet it runs on straight Bio!! You can burn that in the Summer, you could go with the stock B20. It will take care of the lubricity issues, but you will need to be mindful of the bugs and add biocide. I have tried Bio-bor with good results, but probably any name brand one will do.

scot · Post by **scot** » Apr 17th, '08, 18:57

I have a 97 Cummins / mechanical 12 valve (basically a 6BTA with a different bell housing) in the truck and I give it a little shot (about 1/2-1 cup) of transmission fluid with each fill up. I've been doing this for over a year not wanting to gamble on the lubricity of today's diesel. Lot's of guy's down here do the same, it's almost common practice among older diesel owners.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Apr 18th, '08, 08:24

Scot....

How large is your tank, and how much fuel to you usually get to go along with the trans oil volume you mention above?

Hyena Love · Post by **Hyena Love** » Apr 18th, '08, 14:36

So, am I to assume I am the only one that pumps the crankcase oil directly into the fuel tank at oil change time?

Of course, I only change one engine's oil at any given time, and I have a generous 165 gallon tank.

It really cuts down on the disposal hassles for all that old oil. Plus, thats up to 12 quarts of quality lubrication that would otherwise be wasted by dumping it into a storm sewer or than hole I dug out in the back yard.

Terry Frank · Post by **Terry Frank** » Apr 18th, '08, 18:38

Ernest,

You're like the guy in the Budweiser Ad...a real man of genius !

br,

Terry

scot · Post by **scot** » Apr 18th, '08, 19:28

IRGuy, the truck has a 25 gal tank and I typically fill 10-15 gallons at a time. I don't like running around without fuel. I use the cheap, generic ATF.

Ernest, recycling at it's finest, and everyone thinks us Texan's that work around refineries and chemical plants are screwing up the environment? You sir are on the cutting edge of "green"

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 18th, '08, 21:11

Ernest

Do you filter it before putting it in the tank? Would hate to add sludge to the tank.

By the way, transmission fluid is a good cleaner. Its an old trick for freeing up sticky lifters. A quart of transmission fluid added to the oil let it run and get good and hot and change it out. In fact the guy who used to be in the slip next to be had an auto body shop with and he had a bunch of wreckers for his towing business. Always ran them with a quart of Transmission fluid in the engines. Swore by it. Said break the engine down to rebuild them after 200,000 miles and clean as a whistle. He did the same thing with the boat engines.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Apr 20th, '08, 06:14

If you want to trust the distributors to add the correct amount of additive go right ahead. I have heard one complaining about the hight cost of the additive they are supposed to ad. Most are in the business to make as much as they can. I think some will not add what they are supposed to. Biodiesel is a great additive to lubricate pump internals.

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Apr 20th, '08, 11:55

Hyena Love wrote:So, am I to assume I am the only one that pumps the crankcase oil directly into the fuel tank at oil change time?

I 've often considered doing this myself (but have not yet). As it happens, I'm about to change the oil in my 3208's next week.

Is it really okay to run the old oil into the fuel tank?

It sure would be a lot easier to pump the engine oil right into the fuel tank, as opposed to hauling around the the empty bottles and the recycling business.

The quart of ATF in the oil for a little run to clean before an oil change sounds interesting too, although that spooks me a little bit

Hyena Love · Post by **Hyena Love** » Apr 21st, '08, 09:54

Uh, that was intended to be a bit of humor, albeit just a wee bit.

The Stewart of LilBert a/k/a the Hyena Boat is likely the most concerned individual one might ever meet about what goes into her tanks. Crankcase oil is not on her approved list.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Apr 21st, '08, 10:18

Some over the road trucks have a self changing oil system that weeps fuel oil into the fuel tank and replaces it with fresh oil from a holding tank. Then of course there were the Detroits, but that was an entirely different self changing mechanism. They put it on the ground for dust control!!

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Apr 21st, '08, 10:45

Well I looked into this a little and found out that it is done, although it's recommended that you mix fresh fuel with the oil 10:1 first. That kills the idea for me, not worth the trouble even if it is okay (and I'm not sure of that either)

Rawleigh, cummings make a system that does just that

scot · Post by **scot** » Apr 21st, '08, 11:01

In the old days....we use to pour the old oil from the 671 in the yard crane onto the tracks to keep them lubricated. Pre Earth day and pre EPA. I guess today they would call that yard a "super fund site"

Everyone's hard on the old Detroits, the 671 in the 60T crawler crane ran damn near around the clock for 15 years, and I recall seeing a mechanic working on it once or twice.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Apr 22nd, '08, 14:14

An interesting site with facts about diesel additives. Note especially the page about HFRR values. 2% soy kicked all of the other additives' butts.

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/2002-dodg ... le-oil.htm

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Apr 23rd, '08, 12:03

Fleetguard FS 20000

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/p ... T15200.pdf

bertram31.com

ULSD diesel fuel

ULSD diesel fuel

Fleetguard FS 20000

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