Charter Captains, a few questions for you

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

I know a lot of B31 owners are licensed to charter, even if they don't pursue it as a full time vocation. Capt. Randle Hall down in Port Mansfield, TX, was boarded recently, and asked for his TWIC card. He didn't even know what it was, much less that he needed it. I am working on an article about problems facing the charter industry nationwide, and would like comments from you guys. First, are you aware of new requirements like the TWIC, alcohol testing kits required to be carried on board, turtle releasing gear, and increasingly tighter fishing regs in various areas? How is enforcement in your area? Has any of this stuff had an adverse effect on your business, or do you expect it to? Are there any other problems you are facing you'd like aired out? Finally, is chartering by unlicensed operators common where you fish?

[jspiezio]

Great God in Heaven, is it me or has the world gone crazy. A TWIC card for charter captains? That is ludicrous. I think a few TWIT cards handed out in DC would serve a much higher purpose.

[Bruce]

Mike,
While I don't charter, I work for a bunch that do. "Unlicensed" is very common here in my area and enforcement is just about nill.

Don't know whether that's because of the proximity to the Bahamas and they're more interested in smuggling than busting a guy trying to make a living.

One good thing about budget cutbacks is that patroling the seas for weapons of mass destruction or an inflatable full of push or pull starts has slacked off.

One way to control the people is to make them crimminals by passing laws that have no meaning and are subject to arbitrary enforcement.

You hold much power in your pen. Boating magazines worry too much about boat reviews but don't recognize the boating industry is being over regulated by Federal storm troopers.

[CaptPatrick]

So now the Transportation Safety Nazis are stickin' there worthless noses into the fishing community??? Surely whoever boarded Randle must of had some ill conception of who's required to have a Transportation Worker Identification Credential... But then, Big Brother seems to twist the screws of absurdity more frequently in his tireless quest to subdue us all into submission & conformanity. WTHFO??

As currently proposed, TWIC is a secure identification credential, that uses ‘smart card’ technology and is about the size of a credit card. Transportation workers would use TWIC to access secure areas of transportation facilities. The credential verifies the holder’s worker's identity by linking that person's claimed identity and background information to the holder's biometric stored on the credential.

The Maritime Transportation Security Act (MTSA) requires use of a biometric ID credential and a security threat assessment for individuals who have access to secure areas of maritime facilities and vessels without an escort.

The rest of the B.S.

[randall]

bs is right....i feel sorry for someone trying to make a living solely as a charter capt....between absurd fish regs, the price of fuel. and and an increasingly intrusive govt....it cant be easy. the govt put the local baymen here out of biz and they only fished the surf

[jspiezio]

Randall, I have been trying to get a small oyster farm going here on the south shore of LI. You would not believe the beuracray and turf wars about something so seemingly benign.

Sorry, a little off topic, I'll stop now.

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

Pat, the way I had read it in the last notice I got was the same as you, which would mean a charterboat captain would not need it. Now they are saying, maybe, or yes, depending on who you talk to. A lot of the problems we are seeing come from gov'ment cutbacks, in that it seems easier to them to administer the same law to everybody than single out those actually involved. Like Vic pointed out, it will probably cost more money to enforce it on people it is not applicable to than they will take in for fees. I will, of course, be digging further into this.

Bruce, you are on the money about magazines, they work for the ad dollar, not the loyal reader.

[tds8268]

Capt. Mike,

I earn or try to earn a living as a full time charter fishing. I have not heard of this one yet. Why would we need that when we already must posess a Commercial Vessel Operator Permit? Just more bullcrap we'll need to put up with. One of my fellow capt. out of OC, and a b31 owner, got in a little brew-ha-ha last year over this Dolphin/Wahoo permit or should I say lack of and now is facing big fines by the feds. Didn't help that he got physical and verbal with several of them.

Dan
www.finchasersportfishing.com

[In Memory of Vicroy]

The TWIC is the law, period, like it or not. The Port of Baton Rouge was one of the first to require it, a test bed. National implementation has been put off a few times due to logistics, but get ready for it.

Speaking of mindless taxes for "gov. services", my favorite is when we bought the camp on the Tickfaw in 2000.....had to get an occupancy permit from the Parish to get the power turned on, that led to a health dept. check of the sewer system, then I was told I needed a "Flood Permit" as the last step to get the goddam power on...."What's a Flood Permit?" I asked the nice country lady over the phone....."Well, it's $25 and you can't get your power turned on without it" she replied....so I sent Snow some 25 miles with $25 to get the Flood Permit......he calls, "got it boss and they say take it to the permit office and they will tell the elec. co. to cut the power on".....sure, but bring me a copy 'cause I want to see what a Flood Permit is all about......he does....a one page typed form with "FLOOD PERMIT" at the top and some blanks that had been filled in by hand.....my name, my camp address, and that I'd paid $25, nothing else.....now does this permit my camp to flood, or prevent it? If it was to prevent my camp from flooding I want my $25 back, 'cause the downstairs has, about 6 times.......rip, rip, rip....

UV

[Geaux Deep]

Capt. Mike you are correct. I was boarded by the coasties a couple of weeks ago.

They wanted to see ALL of my documents. There are so many required documents for charter captains I have them in a back pack.

Three guys go over everything, and asked for my drug test card. I have that at a cost of $60 a year. Even have a sticker on my boat declaring by boat as drug free.

The last thing they asked for was my TWIC card. I told them I didn't know what they were talking about. The one coasty pulls his TWIC card. It looked like a drivers license with ID picture and a small chip (3/8"x1/2" ) in the corner. I was told that chip would store all of my background info.

I was told the TWIC card is required by all licensed captains and that I had until Sept.,1, 2008 to get one at a cost of about $104.00. ( later I find out the cost is $140.00) They said I could not get my ticket renewed with out it.

I feel this is a backdoor way to nail charter captains.

What a way to implement a new TAX.

Check out this link: -RH
https://twicprogram.tsa.dhs.gov/TWICWebApp/

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

I renewed last September, they told me it wasn't settled yet, but the info they gave me then made it appear charter captains would be exempt.

[scot]

Bruce...

"the horse peed on the dog".... "the horse peed on the dog"

"my neighbors cat is under the porch"...."my neighbors cat is under the porch"

[Bruce]

feel this is a backdoor way to nail charter captains

Nope. Like Vic's "flood permit" Its a fee to support the ever growing rolls of the government workforce without the use of the word "TAX".

We are heading toward the time when the majority of jobs will be held by government.
Since the government is a taker and not a producer, all you have to look at is countries who's majority of population is employed by goverment.

You have two classes. The very rich and the rest are poor who depend their very existance to their government thugs.

Go back and read the constitution. Article I Section 8 list 18 things that government is allowed to do. That power limitation has been prostituted to the higest bidder.

Make no mistake this has nothing to do with charter captains and more to do with a non tax, tax.

BTW is anyone tired of this crap yet? It's about to get much worse.

[bob lico]

the captains school on long island was notified every captain must pay $ 135.00 to renew there captain`s lic.bruce does this sound like the "bullsh-t" the feds did with the ffl licence a few years ago.not that you wanted it for a auto but just to buy a antique gun across the state line.now they taxed the hell out of it and you would have to have a full time gun store to utilize it.

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

It has cost $135 every five years to renew the federal charter license for many years. The TWIC card will be an extra charge. In Texas, if you fish state waters, there is a state guide license fee of $200 per year added to that.

[bob lico]

capt mike thats alot of tariff for a guy who just wants a "ticket" for his own professional status.i can see what was said about florida fly by night charters in the above post becoming more and more common especially if left unchecked.
remember that 2nd amendment watch how they taxed the right to bear arms-----at a price.nassau county you remenber a some years ago collin fugerson (no attemp at spelling that assholes name)gun down a train car full of people.one of them congress women carolyn mcC athy whom loss a son and made her husband a veggie.antigun to the max if one person in that car had a piston permit things could have been differant but a pistol permit in nassau is 325.00 this year!what am i missing here collin bought the gun in another state.

[In Memory Walter K]

I'm going to the Coast Guard in NYC for my eighth renewal and must appear in person to be fingerprinted after 35 years of having the license. Also must bring a photo, two photo ID's, proof of citizenship, proof of belonging to a drug consortium and god knows what else. I'll ask about the new card and fee. Just have to be careful not to be a wiseass, or I'll never get my renewal.
Mike- as the cost of operation rises, you can be sure there will be more and more guys taking people out at lower than charter rates just to be able to help pay their fuel bills. They don't have to even try as during the summer months all you have to do is sit in your cockpit with a mate and some decent tackle and people will come by asking you if you'd take them out "for a few hours" at a lower than normal charter prices. Charter fees, given the cost of legal operation are now fairly high. They mathematically HAVE to be to stay in business. When you can only bring home (IF you limit out) one bass per man (unless you have a $250 permit and are a legal licensed charterboat captain, then you can take two) and four fluke, it's really an expensive decision for many to justify...thus the shopping and bargaining.
In years gone by, an easy 50% of the charters I've had were weekend warriors who went out for fun and games if the weather was nice and loved it when they caught some fish to take home. The other 50% were real fishermen who knew what they were doing, and couldn't be faked out. Now it's only the die hards and the wealthy. The fishing is tougher, The regulations are requirements excessive and confusing and the profits non-existant. The mates go home with more than the Captain.
Walter

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

Bob, Walter, thanks for the input. I don't know if there is any future left for the charter business, and I don't know why there is such a push to get rid of us. For most peopel, the only way they will ever fish offshore is on a recreational-for-hire boat. Once those are gone, it will be strictly a sport for the wealthy.

[CaptDana]

GUYS-

I've been chartering since I could get my license at 18 yrs of age-- over the past 21 yrs-- more and more regs--It sucks- but a lot of them are good- DRUG- Alcohol-- Moves in the right direction-- It got rid of a bunch of shakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkky operators--(we had one capt at our dock that usually was so drunk at the end of the trip that the customer's had to bring the boat back to dock)
I just picked up my TWIC card last Friday-- made my donation a few weeks ago- and now I am on my way-- MY WORD TO THE WISE- This is going to be an item that can take up to 6 weeks to receive- and when the big rush is on in AUGUST-- I am sure the delay will be longer-- Get it now- Get it over with.
Capt Dana

[Harv]

Just remember, as a charter captain,
all fees, licenses, permits and such are tax deductable.

[Harv]

I wonder if I will have to carry a TWIC for driving commercial tractor trailers? I know in addition to my regular renewal next year which is already over $100 for a CDL, I will also have to undergo a fingerprint and background check for an additional $140. It's just rediculous how they rape the average Joe that just wants to persue his occupation or career.

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

But Harv, can't you write that off?

There comes a point when the cost of doing business exceeds the business. We aren't there yet, but ...

Capt. Dana, we have guys who are drunk all the time, who snort white stuff up their noses, and they seem to somehow stay in businesss. We also have a bunch who openly advertise, take local newspaper writers out - and have not one license, permit, or a lick of insurance. I've always chartered part-time, yet stayed completely legal, while I watched some others make a living at it illegally.

[Bruce]

There comes a point when the cost of doing business exceeds the business

Mike, no truer words have been spoken.

[Brewster Minton]

There are many people who take charters that do it illegally here. They have a Capt. licence and thats about it. The only real enforcement is the DEC and the seamonnkeys. The Coasties do saftey checks on big weekends at all the choke points.

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

Well, probably some have - and some of them were yours. I think a lot of this is government taking a one size fits all approach to marine licensing - like classifying six pack captains as "Merchant Marines" on our documents. What they are doing is crushing a segment of the small business market - and a small niche market that I don't know that any large corporate comglomerant that makes big campaign contributions is after. When we all stop chartering, the fees for various documents will go uncollected. In the process, entire coastal economies will suffer, and the average American will be shut out of offshore fishing access on for-hire vessels. This could also mean less safety on the water, and more difficulty in gathering data on fisheries and other marine conditions.

Gee. Sounds like a lose-lose for everybody.

[Harv]

Mike,

I in fact do write off any fees, permits, and additional licensing that I may need for both my job, and chartering.

When we all stop chartering, the fees for various documents will go uncollected. In the process, entire coastal economies will suffer, and the average American will be shut out of offshore fishing access on for-hire vessels. This could also mean less safety on the water, and more difficulty in gathering data on fisheries and other marine conditions.

Gee. Sounds like a lose-lose for everybody.

This is what happens with runaway government that thinks they know it all. Unfortunately, we have proved them wrong time and time again, but to no avail.

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

In Mexico, every few years the peons used to rise up, kill all the leaders, put their heads on poles, and put a new bunch in power. When the new guys got too bad, they did it over again. Sort of permanent term limits.

[In Memory Walter K]

Mike- The one advantage I see in now being classified as a "U.S. Merchant Marine Officer" is that I am now part of a "regulated militia" when it comes to the second amendment. Walter

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

Just got off the TWIC website, more bad nws. The second part of this dealie will be to require card readers for the TWIC to be carried onboard, at the vessel owner's expense. This was delayed in the initial program while they shop for one that doesn't conk out in a marine environment. I was under the impression a TWIC would only be required for those with uunescorted access to ports and port operations, but they have included VESSELS in this. This probably means if you don't have a locked wheelhouse, your mate or deckhand will need a TWIC, also, and you will both have to "card in" everytime you enter the helm area.

If you have recently gone through a background check, as I did last year both for my captain's renewal and my DOE credentials, your TWIC cost will be $105, roughly, instead of $135, and will run with your captain's credentials, so it must be renewed every 5 yeasr.

To require me to have such a credential, and need it to board my own vessel, is - I think - pushing "Homeland Security" a bit too far. If all they will do if I don't get one is refuse to renew my license, then so be it. I wasn't planning to renew after this nxt five years, anyway.

[randall]

well...im part of the unregulated militia ..there.s a lot more of us

[Harv]

Just as I had thought....

TWICs are tamper-resistant biometric credentials that will be issued to workers who require unescorted access to secure areas of ports, vessels, outer continental shelf facilities and all credentialed merchant mariners. It is anticipated that more than 750,000 workers including longshoremen, truckers, port employees and others will be required to obtain a TWIC.

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/twic/index.shtm

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

It's the "secure areas of vessels" we neeed to work on - most of our boats don't have them, hell, CAN'T have them.

[Harv]

It's the "secure areas of vessels" we neeed to work on - most of our boats don't have them, hell, CAN'T have them.

Mike,

In my "other" line of work, it seems I will undoubtedly have to get a TWIC. I am often at the piers or airports in NY. Sometimes I need to be on the tarmac to make deliveries and pickups. For this reason, I'm sure I'll be needing one of these. The trick now is to see whether the company will cover the costs for us (30,000 of us) or not. With so many employees, I doubt they will cover the tab, but you never know. They do cover our bi-annual DOT physicals. Also, I need to know whether I will get banged once or twice by the govt.