Know your fish

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 3rd, '08, 18:28

I've had this problem with resturants and Tile fish. A few months back, I got an appitizer of Tile, Grouper, Snapper with different sauces and it was Tile.

I decided to get the Tile main course. Wasn't even close to Tile. Called the manager over, ordered another appitizer which was Tile and showed him the difference in the texture between the two.
Ya know that jackass didn't appologize or offer to comp the meal.

I paid cash and discounted the price to what Tilapia should go for.
High end resturant too.
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Restaurant customers in Fla. are being served fake grouper

By BRENDAN FARRINGTON
Associated Press Writer

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) -- At many restaurants around Florida, the specialty of the house is a slab of grouper, blackened, grilled, stuffed or encrusted with pecans, sometimes on a roll, maybe with a slice of Bermuda onion. But not at Richard Gonzmart's place.

Gonzmart, whose family has owned the Columbia restaurant in Tampa's Cuban-American Ybor City section for four generations, won't serve grouper, because he can't be sure he is getting the real thing from his suppliers.

Many restaurants in Florida have been caught passing off Asian catfish, tilapia or other cheaper species as grouper. Fake grouper is by far the biggest food-misrepresentation problem Florida inspectors handle, and it has turned up in all corners of the state - even at the Capitol cafeteria.

"I'm not going to take that chance because my reputation is more important than keeping grouper on the menu," Gonzmart said. "It's not worth it to take a short cut. If grouper is $20 a pound, so be it, but if we buy it for $20 a pound and it's not grouper, that's a problem."

The Florida Department of Business & Professional Regulation, which regulates restaurants, found 139 cases of something other than grouper being sold as the fish between January 2006 through the end of last October - more than half of all food misrepresentation cases statewide during that time. The runners-up were 75 cases of fake crab and 34 cases of fake tuna.

"I had no idea. It's just a huge amount," said Department Secretary Holly Benson.

The problem has gone on for years but is receiving more attention lately.

About a year ago, an owner of two Florida Panhandle seafood companies was sentenced to prison after federal authorities caught him selling more than a million pounds of Asian catfish labeled as grouper.

In the Miami area, inspectors walked into a food processing plant and found workers taking 6,000 pounds of Vietnamese catfish that sells wholesale for about $2.50 a pound and repackaging it as grouper, which goes for about $6 wholesale.

And two men are scheduled to go on trial in California later this month on charges they were part of a scheme to import millions of pounds of Vietnamese catfish into United States and claim it was pricier filets like sole, grouper, flounder and conger pike.

That hurts fishermen like Michael Athorn. He and his three-man crew spend up to 12 days 60 to 70 miles from shore in the Gulf of Mexico, trying to reach the 6,000-pound catch limit for grouper, which has to be caught on individual hooks.

Back on shore he has often found restaurants advertising grouper and putting something else on a plate.

"It's something that's aggravated us for a long time," he said. "I've embarrassed girlfriends and wives in the past by making a big point of it in a grocery store, letting them know it wasn't what it was. I've embarrassed people that I've taken out to dinner by refusing a meal that wasn't really grouper."

State officials are becoming more aware of the problem. Benson's agency has doubled the fine for restaurants from $250 to $500 for a first offense. Agriculture Commissioner Charles Bronson has posted a Web page with full-color, high-resolution photos that can show people how to distinguish real grouper - lean, thick, firm flesh - from thinner, darker fillets of Asian catfish.

Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum hired a lab to perform DNA tests on grouper - or what was advertised as grouper - that investigators bought at 24 Tampa Bay-area restaurants. More than 17 of them were selling other types of fish, and McCollum reached settlements with all but one of them.

Among the substitutes were emperor fish, hake, sutchi, bream and green weakfish.

The lab was not asked to test grouper from grocery stores. But the wife of a lab scientist brought home some fillets a supermarket was selling as grouper, and the scientist took the fish to the lab and tested it.

"I don't know what it was. It wasn't grouper, that's all I do know," said scientist David Price.

Now Florida is going after bigger fish: distributors. The attorney general has subpoenaed records of several, including the biggest distributor, Sysco Food Services of West Coast Florida Inc.

"We've been asked to participate with cleaning up the industry and we have complied," said President Carl Cannova. "Quite frankly, we agree with the attorney general."

Sysco began its own random testing program about a year and a half ago. Cannova said a few shipments received shortly after testing began turned out to be other fish, and they were immediately kicked back to the supplier.

"Never, never, did we ever knowingly sell something as grouper that wasn't grouper," Cannova said.

Jareb · Post by **Jareb** » Jan 3rd, '08, 19:06

Bruce,
Its because of this scam that I dont order grouper except in a few restaurants that I know well. If I want grouper I go to the local fish market where I can order a few pounds and watch them fillet the whole fish in front of you- does cost $20/lb though.
John

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jan 3rd, '08, 19:10

Bruce,
There is a saying around here that goes, "Order the grouper, its fresh"
Thats because up here its usually Striped Bass.
Of course for you guys down south I hear the square grouper is where the money was at. Poor critter hear they are nearly extinct now. Can't blame that one on overfishing.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 3rd, '08, 19:43

About 2 years ago one of the local television stations went from resturant to resturant gathering samples of "Red Snapper".

They then submittited the snapper samples to a lab to be DNA tested. Well as Gomer Pile would say "SURPRISE SURPRISE" dem fishes wus not Red Snapper after all.

The reporters went back to the resturant owners and once again "SURPRISE SURPRISE" most of them would not be interviewed on camera. The ones that did interview claimed that they were scammed by their suppliers.

When I want Red Snapper I just go catch them and as of today they only cost me $3635.00 a pound and I expect the price to increase even more before it gets better. LOL

Mostly when we do go out for seafood we patronize a couple of local resturants and order mostly Oysters and Shrimp. One local resturant serves a knock out baked whole Flounder........thats pretty hard to disguise.

BUYER BEWARE

Harry

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 3rd, '08, 19:55

I know, I got the "duped by the supplier" line.

My response to him was, I'd believe that one if I was eating at the 5.99 all you can eat buffet palace, but as a manager of a resturant of this type, you should know what your buying. And your chef should know what he's cooking.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jan 3rd, '08, 20:31

I'm surprised he didn't comp you on that. Another sign of poor management.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 3rd, '08, 20:34

What about it Brewester..........there is you another customer

Harry

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Jan 3rd, '08, 21:00

Bruce, be glad you know the difference....most people get duped all the time, and thats just a damm shame.
One fish they can't get you on is, Fried Mullet! I would like to see that tried!
DQ

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 4th, '08, 06:14

15 years ago I went to Tampa for a Yanmar meeting.

That night looking for a resturant I saw several signs that said fried mullet on a stick.

Some say its good.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jan 4th, '08, 07:44

Bruce wrote:15 years ago I went to Tampa for a Yanmar meeting.

That night looking for a resturant I saw several signs that said fried mullet on a stick.

Some say its good.

They also like the Buccaneers.

Go Packers

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 4th, '08, 08:40

Fish served in almost any place that is not run by a fish monger (with morals) has to be suspect. My concern would be how the product was handled. Most people have no idea how to handle fish and proper HACCP rules and regs. Defrosting fish in the wrong way could kill you in 24 hours. Fish mongers are like any other speciality, some are great at what they do and some are not. Giving you the wrong fish or trying to get over on you with crab is the least of your problem. They can make you sick, and you might not live to sue them. Every worker in my market is trained how to handle fish and shellfish. It takes a a great deal of time and money. If its a steak house, dont get the fish. Go to a seafood place were the owner is around, or if he is not he is fishing. Ask him to show you were they cut their fish. If its the right place they will take you, and you will know from the smell and knives to eat or not. I am very proud of what we do here. My name is on the front. Bruce can tell you the same thing about boats and differant yards and if they can be trusted and do great work or have pride in what they do.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 4th, '08, 10:22

Alright you got my attention Brewster, how does one defrost a fish to make it lethal.

I know about dead shellfish and worked in a resteraunts that served dead crustateans in there special "All you can eat buffet with Lobster", I got outta there fast...

On another note, I love the Fresh Shrimp you now see in all the supermarkets with the writing on the bottom of the pricing sign Previously Frozen. I liked it better when things where fresh or frozen. Now you have Fresh, Fresh-previosly frozen, Freshly frozen, Fresh frozen-thawed...

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Jan 4th, '08, 10:23

Bruce,

Fried Mullet is very good eating if it is fresh, usually along the Gulf Coast is where it is served the most because of the Inland Bays along the Gulf Coast. Now LA Mullet does not taste the same @ all, just a little muddy tasting, but good bait for Marlin & Wahoo & Tuna. But never had it on a stick to eat.

Brewster,
I agree most steak houses....are not where you want to eat seafood, but down here on the Gulfcoast there are a couple of resturants that specialize in serving both and taste is excellent because they use local seafood suppliers. Lucky US

DQ

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 5th, '08, 16:25

there are many biological safety hazards that can commonly be found in seafood products. If not properly handled and taken care of, bacterial pathogens can develop. Pathogen growth is an important factor in food-borne illness. For any sport or commercial fisherman, knowing how to properly handle his or her seafood is important if being used for human consumption.

Clostridium botulinum, Escherichia coli, and Listeria monoctyogenes are the most common bacterial pathogens that occur in fin fish.

Clostridium botulinum is a spore forming bacteria that is found throughout the environment. The interesting characterisitcs of is that it can grow in the absence of air and can survive normal cooking temperatures. This means that vacuum packaged seafood has to be handled correctly. C. Botulinum Type A is most common in land-based product and is common contaminant on processing equipment. It will grow at temperatures no colder than 50F and produces a putrid odor in products in which it grows. However, its spores are much more heat tolerant than Type E. Because C. Botulinum can grow in an anerobic environment and produces heat resistant sportes, botulism has been commonly associtaed with improperly canned food, vacuum packaged products, semi-preserved seafood, including smoked, salted and fermented fish. Furthermore C. Botulinum can be controlled by maintaing proper storage temperatures, especially after a product is packaged in the absence of air. Heavy salting or drying that reduces the water activity is another barrier to C. Botulinum growth. If thawing of a frozen seafood product that is vacuum packaged, proper precautions should be followerd as well. For example, the vacuum seal should be broked directly out of the freezer and placed in a refridgerate environment until defrosted.

more to follow about the dangers of bacteria in your seafood!

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jan 5th, '08, 20:27

Hey Brewster,
Started canning my own fish this year. Mostly Longfin.
Start by bleeding and collering the fish. Dump into brine box (Ice/Salt (lots) water). Upon return to dock fish may sit overnight in same solution.
Cleaning is done on Blue (fish only) plastic cutting board. Knives board and bus boy trays (for holding clean fish) have all been cleaned in bleach rinsed and air dried.
Processed fish is then taken to a refrigeration unit stored for a few hours (covered) and then ready for canning.
Cans Lids and rings have been boiled and the fish is placed into 1 pint cans using a sterilized canning ring (plastic)- all knives and boards used in cutting at this point are sterilized as well in boiled water. I can with a teaspoon of olive oil in the pints and use a pressure cooker at 11lbs for 12 minutes.
Is this on the right path. The stuffs been awesome. About the only canned fish I'll eat straight out of the pint. As Martha would say; It'f F*&kin Off the Hook!!!!!! (this of course is after prison)

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 5th, '08, 21:17

Ordered a whole sweet and sour Sea Bass at a Chinese restaurant once and was presented with a beautifully done whole Sweet and Sour Porgy. The waiter/maitre'd swore up and down in both broken English and Chinese that it was a Sea Bass. Needless to say, we never went there again. Most of the pink fish in markets are marked red snapper...and they aren't. Supermarket packaged fillets are who-knows what. Hard to be a good cook with that crap. Easy to be a good cook with fresh caught fish that came over the stern of a Bertram 31. Walter

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 6th, '08, 09:04

JP you got it right. You want to have as few people doing it as you can and make sure they all are following your system. When done right there is nothing better.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 6th, '08, 13:40

Thank Brewster. I never heard about breaking the seal on Vacuum packed seafood. I have to get myself up to speed on this new information.

I have for years taken vacuum packed tuna steaks and just tossed into a cool water bath to defrost quickly while I heated up the BBQ.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jan 6th, '08, 14:43

Brewster Minton wrote:... the vacuum seal should be broked directly out of the freezer and placed in a refridgerate environment until defrosted.
...

I had no idea about that. Although I think my wife may have had an idea. Just another reason for me to stay out of the kitchen.

Capt Dick Dean · Post by **Capt Dick Dean** » Jan 6th, '08, 17:59

Well, here's my story.

On a winter vacation to Naples Fl some yrs ago at an up scale resturant, I order a 2# Maine lobster. The thing comes out with the claws broken off and next to the body. I called over the waiter.

" The claws don't go with this lobster, they are too small".
"No, they do."
" My brother is a licensed lobsterman from NY and I'm on his boat alot. These claws don't go with the lobster".

I see Maureen getting upset. I'm ruining dinner. I had to let it go. So I did!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 6th, '08, 22:08

Brewster

Looks like you should do an article about this. I vacum seal all my fish. Never thought that thawing it in the refrigerator without opening the bag was a problem. Do it that way all the time. Well the last time will be the last time. Tony Meola

nic · Post by **nic** » Jan 7th, '08, 05:27

Bruce,

The Good Sheperd....good movie...better on the 2nd viewing. I thought where have I heard that before...took a moment, well done.

Nic

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 8th, '08, 08:55

Listeria is also very bad and can grow in lots of places. Bait is a great place to start. Butterfish are held in holds on draggers that are not clean then frozen. You put the butterfish in a cooler or in a fish box. You throw bait and catch fish and now put them in the box or cooler. That fish is now suspect for Listeria. Then you get back to the dock. You clean your fish on the table where everyone cleans their fish or your cleaning table. It is now suspect. Soap is not the answer, you need bleach. 500 ppm or one cap full per gallon of water will kill it. Cutting boards, knives, coolers all need to be cleaned in the proper manner. Dont put bait where your fish is going to end up. All frozen bait is suspect and so is fresh off the dragger. Its not something you think about but it is a real danger. I will post several other concerns asap.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 8th, '08, 09:02

Brewster
I appreciate all of your health tips concerning the proper way to handle seafood.

Rest assured I will change the way I handle my bait and catch from now on.

I'm all ears...........thanks

Harry

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jan 8th, '08, 10:48

Brewster Minton wrote:Listeria is also very bad and can grow in lots of places. Bait is a great place to start. Butterfish are held in holds on draggers that are not clean then frozen. You put the butterfish in a cooler or in a fish box. You throw bait and catch fish and now put them in the box or cooler. That fish is now suspect for Listeria. Then you get back to the dock. You clean your fish on the table where everyone cleans their fish or your cleaning table. It is now suspect. Soap is not the answer, you need bleach. 500 ppm or one cap full per gallon of water will kill it. Cutting boards, knives, coolers all need to be cleaned in the proper manner. Dont put bait where your fish is going to end up. All frozen bait is suspect and so is fresh off the dragger. Its not something you think about but it is a real danger. I will post several other concerns asap.

Alright, now you are scaring me Brewster.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 8th, '08, 20:03

Alright, now you are scaring me Brewster.

Just make sure when you keel over at the table eating seafood and foaming at the mouth, its something good like Lobster.

Wouldn't want the family to remember me by saying, poor dumb bastard died eating a fried mullet.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jan 8th, '08, 20:19

Hey Bruce gotta say; I don't care who you are that right there is funny!!!!!

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 8th, '08, 20:33

Actually fried mullet is not that bad - the only fish you can fry in it's own grease. When I say it's not that bad I'm comparing it to choupique.

UV

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 8th, '08, 21:08

Brewster

All the things I never thought of and I am sure we have done. Amazing. Tony Meola

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 8th, '08, 21:17

Vic

Actually I am a real fan of FRESH fried mullet and really cold beer.

There is a resturant in Pensacola (or at least there was one before Ivan) called Rustys that served a bucket of "Mullet Backbones" as an appetizer.

Now educate me what is CHOUPIQUE??????

Harry

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 8th, '08, 22:13

A Choupique (pro. SHOE-PICK) is a grinnel to you non-coonasses. A prehistoric fish that will attack your spinner bait while bass fishing or whack your tube jig while sac a lait fishing. Grows to 8+# and you can throw them out on the bank and they will live for a week, sort of like Timmy.

UV

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Jan 8th, '08, 22:37

UV, can they stay on a stool without falling off for a week also?

DQ

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 8th, '08, 22:43

I see Vic
I would guess that the proper way to prepare Choupique would be to marinate then bake it on a 2X6 pine board until done then throw away the fish and eat the board??

Harry

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Jan 8th, '08, 22:49

You got it Harry, fresh fried Mullet with a ICE COLD COORS LIGHT, Dammit Man thats some Goooooood Eaten!

DQ

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