ZF question

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » May 2nd, '11, 08:32

Since I bought my Cummins used with the ZF 220's and no manuals I have a couple of questions. First, how do I check the oil in the Trannies? I can find nothing on the internet about them that explains. A local pundant said warm up the engines (and trannies) and check the level with the engines idling and the tranny in neutral. Yes?
Second, After wiping the stick and reinserting it to check the level do I insert in all the way or just to the rubber plug, like my Honda lawnmower?
Third, do I change the oil at the same interval as the engines or what?
To date I have been changing the oil at the same interval as the engines and wondered whether this is over kill. Since I have no leaks I haven't worried too much about how to check. Level has always been up the stick. Playing with disaster fear.
Lastly, Is there such a thing as an owner's manual for the ZF 220's? If it is not too big can someone copy and send it to me?
Thanks, guys

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » May 2nd, '11, 09:30

Mickey,

1. no you don't have to warm the tranny up.

2. Yes you do.

3. Once a year with a good 30wt oil and let it ride.

4. I don't have a manual to send you, but the main things are try not to shift into forward or reverse over 1K RPM, you can also use a oil temp gauge to make your oil cooler is working.

Try to keep it as rust free as possible and make sure your linkage is always engaging your shift lever all the way into gear.

The ZF220 is just about bullet proof if taken care of, just like your Cummins engines.

DQ

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 2nd, '11, 09:59

Mikey - I have the manual and will copy for you. Ditto what Doug says, but the manual says the oil change interval is 1,000 hours. I've never changed the oil in mine, since I've busted a gear cooler hose often enough to have it self change. The manual says to use NON detergent 30W oil....Tony Athens poo-pooed that, says to use the best oil you can find, like Shell Rotella T 15W40, same as the engines. I follow the manual and use non detergent Auto Zone brand oil. A ZF rep told me at the FLL boat show once they don't want to use detergent oil to avoid foaming.

Pay particular attention to the two short steel hi pressure oil tubes on the back upper left of the gear, they are about the size of your ring finger....they will rust out in a heartbeat if not kept painted and coated in CX. They are a bitch to change too so keep em coated. Ditto on the shift lever and the bracket that holds the shift cable - they are steel and rust bad....there is a ball & spring detent under the shift lever that sticks easy....shoot it with CX frequently. The gear case is aluminum and won't rust but the external parts are steel, and hi carbon to boot....the dipstick top will rust too. I painted my dipstick black 'cause its hard to see the oil on the shiny stick. Yes, push it all the way down and do it with the egine off, but my Cummins mechanic used to always "warm up the gears" by running them in gear at the dock for a few minutes before checking the oil. Also pay attention to the steel ends of the gear cooler hoses, they rust - unless you are lucky enough to have brass or s/s ends.

I'll bring the gear manual home next time I'm over at the camp and copy it for you....the gears are IRM ZF 220As and made in Italy...the manual is sorta in English but still you need it, has good info and diagrams, like how to remove the shift lever from the top of the gear - there is a tiny drift pin thru the shift shaft you would never find without knowing its there. I was leery of the gears when I became the steward of AJ in the early 90s but guess I gotta agree by now - thousands of hours - that the damn things are pretty much bullet proof.

UV

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » May 2nd, '11, 10:24

Mikey: This Amsoil synthetic gear lube claims to be rated for the ZF transmission. It is 75/80W90, which I think correlates to 30 wt motor oil. I use Amsoil synthetic ATF in my Borg Warners and it is great.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » May 2nd, '11, 10:43

Thanks, gang. Vic, appreciate the manual. Have had to replace the cursed tubes on both trannies when I bought them. One was leaking on first start up so bought the "service" manual (mostly in Italian, but close enough to Spanish I got it) and the parts and had at it. A pain in the butt but doable, and they run great now. Plenty of scrape and paint on both in the spring to prevent a relapse. Since I buy Rotella by the bucket that's what use in them. Think you gave me that advice early on.
Well, I'm off to change the oil n my trannies.

jackryan · Post by **jackryan** » May 2nd, '11, 10:55

I have the ZF 220's as well and they have been great. How do you drain the transmission oil to change it?

JR

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » May 2nd, '11, 12:39

Amsoil is great stuff -- we make it!

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » May 2nd, '11, 13:13

Jack,

Thru the dipstick tube. Using a drill motor pump is what I use.

DQ

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 2nd, '11, 13:14

Capt. Jack - I've never drained mine but guess you would suck it out the dipstick hole with a pump? There is a drain plug on the bottom but doubt you could get anything under it to drain them. I'll look at the manual and see what it says.

UV

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » May 2nd, '11, 13:36

mine has a filter inside, i suck it out of there, dip stick is on the other side

algillen · Post by **algillen** » May 2nd, '11, 14:14

ZF has manuals online you can download.

http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/company/ ... nload.html

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » May 2nd, '11, 14:34

Last time I changed the oil I used the same pump that I use to suck the oil from the engines, but a smaller hose. Poke it down the filler hole and let'er rip. Works great.
Looked at the ZF website and couldn't find squat. May be my amateur web capabilities.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 2nd, '11, 14:48

The ZF site only has some installation drawings and one data sheet for the ZF IRM 220A gear, no manuals.

UV

algillen · Post by **algillen** » May 2nd, '11, 16:42

Thanks Vic, I stand corrected. Thought for sure I had downloaded an IRM220A manual from there a few years back... I see it's not there any longer.

BTW, you can get the vast majority of the gear oil out using a pump sucking out of the dipstick hole. Pulling that plug at the bottom would be tough unless you have a much bigger boat where the gears are not nearly touching the hull. Over the course of 1,000 hours of use, my oil never showed any color or texture change, but I still changed it out once per year. For the 3 quarts/side or whatever it took was smart insurance.

ag

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » May 2nd, '11, 17:28

mikey
i have the manuel, not sure of the model #, ill get it next time iam at the boat

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 2nd, '11, 17:32

looking at gear from output flange bottom of trans has two casted bulbs with brass fittings one on left is for trans oil temp. the one on right is to drain trans of oil. the setiment collects in the "bulb" you have a internal thread that is made for fitting . get " coast guard blue" 1/2" hose about 10" long thead into bulb and put hose in holder on deck support . install theaded fitting on end with cap . same theaded fitting on engine oil . when time for pm. oil change both have same thread 7/16". connect to oil pump and remove oil with all the bottom setiment coming out first the contaminant is what you what . this is not a combustion motor so changing oil is really to remove setiment from clutches material. hose coming off bottom of gear mounts on deck support where it is easily connected to pump and 5 gallon can.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 2nd, '11, 17:55

Now that's a good idea Bob. Mikey - email me your snail mail address for the copy of the manual - royvictor@cox.net

UV

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » May 2nd, '11, 18:15

I have the 220a zfs as well and just added the fluid to them, used rotella non detergent 30 weight, I have two drain plugs down low, cut a small plastic tray to fit and drained about a 1/2 quart at a time. Dont forget the screen or filter when doing a change. What is the best location for gear temp and pressure senders? Thanks BH

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 2nd, '11, 18:40

Bob - there is a threaded port on the left side of the upper part of the back of the gear (output end)...think its a 3/8 pipe thread, but not sure. That is for the gear pressure sender. On reflection, on mine it may just be a "T" off of one of the gear cooler hoses. The pressure runs about 300 psi so you need a fairly hi presssure sender and gague. I don't have the temp, but think most gear coolers have a threaded port on the input side where one could be mounted, or T the T where the pressure sensor goes. Oh yeah, the gear pressure senders also rust badly, so keep 'em coated, and carry a pipe plug when they fail.....ask me how I know.

UV

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 2nd, '11, 20:50

Not sure you should run synthetic in the transmission. I read some where that the synthetic was a little too slick for the clutches and could cause them to slip.

Wish I could remember where I read that.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 8th, '11, 12:25

OK Faithful, I have the manual for the ZF IRM 220A gears. I have requests for 3 copies so far. If anyone else needs a copy send me your anme & mailing address please, royvictor@cpx.net

The manual is in english and italian and is pretty good. Someone had asked recently about the gear pressure for purposes of a sender and gague - according to the manual the max gear pressure is 313 PSI, which is consistent with what I've been using.

UV

34Hatt · Post by **34Hatt** » May 9th, '11, 09:38

Tony Meola wrote:Not sure you should run synthetic in the transmission. I read some where that the synthetic was a little too slick for the clutches and could cause them to slip.

Wish I could remember where I read that.

I was told the same exact thing by a marine transmission guy that I trust. Just use a good 30W.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 9th, '11, 10:49

Tony Athens corrected my statement about his views on the correct oil and says that ZF did not specify "non detergent" oil and he is correct as usual. My 1988 version of the ZF IRM 220A manual states, page
a-4: " SAE 30 oil must be used according to API-CD or MIL-L-2104C or Caterpillar TO-2 specifications".

I assumed the SAE 30 referred to 30 weight non detergent oil like you would use in a lawnmower and that was confirmed to me by the ZF rep at a FLL boat show many years ago...And the rep had a very heavy Italian accent, which convinced me he knew what he was talking about.

I did a little looking and it appears that the "API CD" spec became obsolete in 1996. The detergent in the motor oil is to pick up combustion soot accoring to Mr. Google. Since there is no combustion in the gear, guess that's why the oil always stays nice and clean. Anyway, that's about as far as I went with it, just plumb lost interest.

Thanks Tony, good to hear from you.

UV

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » May 9th, '11, 13:25

How much oil does the ZF gear hold? Thanks

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 9th, '11, 15:34

Three liters not counting the gear cooler and its hoses.

UV

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » May 16th, '11, 12:23

Vic, Got it! Thanks. This will be an enormous help, especially the part in Italian complete with hand gestures.

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Oct 16th, '24, 09:26

I know this is an old thread - I am just in the process of changing my oil tubes on my ZF 220A - they are a bitch. Does anybody that has changed also replace all the O-rings? I'd like to - but Seaboard is asking $383 for a rebuild pack of o-rings - that seems excessive. Sizes? just leave as is?

Yeah - they were a little scary once I got everything removed and cleaned up.

S Ritzert · Post by **S Ritzert** » Oct 16th, '24, 11:31

out of curiosity, do you have the part numbers on those? I can get some ZF goodies from one of my vendors.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Oct 16th, '24, 12:40

If you take them out you can measure, and buy from McMaster. Down side is you'll have to buy a bag of each...but way less then Seaboard. https://www.mcmaster.com/products/o-rings/o-rings-1~/

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Oct 16th, '24, 19:11

Thanks Carl - I thought of that too - although questioned my ability to accurately measure.

the ZF part (that I could find anyway) Overhaul Gasket Seal Kit for Hurth ZF IRM 220 220a Replaces 3205199501 Alt322800

S Ritzert · Post by **S Ritzert** » Oct 17th, '24, 09:35

I cannot find those parts through my vendors. I did reach out to ZF this morning to see if they offer options to dealers to purchase parts at a wholesale price. I need parts for my gears too. We will see what they say

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Oct 17th, '24, 14:11

Thanks Shannon - I did buy the Oil tube kit from Seaboard -

https://www.sbmar.com/product/zf220a-zf ... set-screw/

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Nov 10th, '24, 21:05

I did buy a variety of O rings from McMaster Carr - got way more than I need for $40.77 including shipping. Everything went back together pretty well.

I didn't have a chance to fill it and run it - but will get to that soon.

John Swick · Post by **John Swick** » Nov 11th, '24, 18:40

Jeremey,
Thank you for the trip down memory lane .

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 12th, '24, 06:54

Its is crazy the markup that is put on packing very inexpensive parts like o-rings. On top of that IF you needed a good ( several hundred-1000's) quantity of the O-Rings...McMaster pricing is off the wall high. That said...buying a kit with a 1/2 dozen O-rings of the right size is extremely less costly then bringing gears to dealership to have job done.

Glad you were able to tackle the job and save a bit through McMaster.

S Ritzert · Post by **S Ritzert** » Nov 12th, '24, 10:56

Carl,
Mastercraft uses a ZF V-drive in their boats (or they did about 20 or so years ago) Within 250 hours, the input shaft seals would fail. I've replaced many of them. Just the was up into the 200 dollar range, Unbelievable. I tried to source that seal out to our local seal and bearing facility with zero luck. I would have to purchase them from a dealer. I never dug into it real hard, but I assume that seal is made for ZF only.

Oh, I did get a dealer agreement with ZF, but the way I read the contract is that they wanted me to put them on my insurance a lost payee. I haven't dug into that either to make sure I understood it right. When things calm down a bit in my shop, I will look into it.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 12th, '24, 13:28

S Ritzert wrote: ↑Nov 12th, '24, 10:56 I tried to source that seal out to our local seal and bearing facility with zero luck. I would have to purchase them from a dealer.

They would not be the first manufacturer to use proprietary parts.

Seals and bearing suppliers are one avenue, also look into the hydraulic industry, like a hydraulic repair/supply shop.

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Nov 13th, '24, 17:33

Everything was pretty snug - so hopefully should not have leaks - The O rings are just a sealing surface so should not be a leak concern. Guess we shall see.

bertram31.com

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