Eta Beta

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Dec 20th, '23, 04:07

Here we are...let the journey begin.
It will be a looooooong one!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 20th, '23, 08:05

Congratulations, this will be one of the best days ever...the other will be when you sell it. LOL

Seriously, she looks great! What are the particulars, what's the direction you intend? Use n tackle a project as you go or an all-out attack?

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Dec 20th, '23, 09:31

Carl wrote: ↑Dec 20th, '23, 08:05 Congratulations, this will be one of the best days ever...the other will be when you sell it. LOL

Seriously, she looks great! What are the particulars, what's the direction you intend? Use n tackle a project as you go or an all-out attack?

Thank you Carl!

"Eta Beta" is a gasser SportFish, with two 2015 6.2 MPI Mercruisers 320hp, with less than 200 hours.
I'm going for a "down to the stringers" project, including genset, air-conditioning/heating, head w/stall-shower.
My only doubt is if keeping the same configuration (my favorite) or adding a bulkhead between cockpit and cabin.
An EZ2CY enclosure would be fine; the lack of a true door the downside

francesco

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Dec 20th, '23, 11:41

Francesco,

How do you consider AC and heating without a bulkhead? Even a plastic partition wouldn't provide any insulation I think.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Dec 20th, '23, 13:00

Yannis wrote: ↑Dec 20th, '23, 11:41 Francesco,

How do you consider AC and heating without a bulkhead? Even a plastic partition wouldn't provide any insulation I think.

Yannis,

if enclosures are made using EZ2CY or SeaCrylic (which is the very same material marketed when EZ2CY patent expired), they're like plexiglass; coupling those materials with Stamoid and proper zippers, would make cabin sealed almost as fixtures grant.
These kind of enclosures have been used often on air-conditioned flybridges (as shown in the picture

).
The tricky point is achieving a practical way-in/way-out, without a true door, while I don't like a hinged plexiglass door, as on "Legit II" (nice 31, with head positioned forward, on starboard side)

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 20th, '23, 22:34

The sport fish model. Nice. Adding a full head should be interesting.

I assume there is a lower station that is coming out.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Dec 21st, '23, 10:27

Tony,

I've been looking for some affordable 31, preferably a FBC, for a long time, while I've been thinking that SFs, beside the nice seamless between cockpit and cabin, meant lower stations.
The funny thing, is that the other 31 I've been dealing with, which is by the way a boat that was renowned to CaptPatrick, is an FBC with the lower station!
This make me incline to keep it, even though it will be quite hard to have both, full head and lower station, above all due I would like not shortening room, between dinette benches.
We use to say: " You can't have drunk wife, wine in the cask and bunch of grapes in the vineyard"

Amberjack · Post by **Amberjack** » Dec 21st, '23, 15:55

franzmerenda wrote: ↑Dec 21st, '23, 10:27
even though it will be quite hard to have both, full head and lower station,

Remove the lower steering and go with an autopilot remote. Flip the engine controls upside down and mount to the overhead as in a commercial airliner. The engine controls should be right above the overhead forward and to the right, so it should be easy. Eliminate any lower helm seat and use that space for your other needs. You will rarely use the lower helm due to visibility limitations. When I do use it I just stand in the forwardcomp anion way.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 21st, '23, 22:19

Doug is correct. Tough to see over the nose when you are running at planning speed. Can get a little nerve wracking.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Dec 22nd, '23, 04:03

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Dec 21st, '23, 22:19 Doug is correct. Tough to see over the nose when you are running at planning speed. Can get a little nerve wracking.

...not to mention the lack of visibility, due to full head volume against front window.
It was kind of romantic saving the second wheel, also because it's the vintage large 6 spokes; but everybody is wisely suggesting me to get rid of lower station...

JoeBro · Post by **JoeBro** » Dec 30th, '23, 19:37

I have a 1980 31 Sportfish. Hull number 1700. It has the upper and lower helms and the original layout except for a clear 1/2” thick polycarbonate rear bulkhead that has a “real” door made of the same material. It even has the original Bertram door hardware. I bought the boat with it like that and I really do love it. As for the lower station, I never pilot from there except when trolling or otherwise tooling around slowly. That view over the bow is bad and I like to see what I’m going to run over when traveling at speed.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Jan 13th, '24, 12:02

...and the beat goes on...

I'll be chasing on internet to find some decent engine cover, to get rid of those scant grey pieces of plastic and some shining SS raisers/manifolds

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Jan 13th, '24, 17:24

Those pics evokes some memories!

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 15th, '24, 05:29

I get nightmares from those pics........

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Jan 20th, '24, 12:31

Well, it seems this is the 861st 31 manufactured after hull #101, which is the first fiberglass hull made in 1961.
I'm quite confused when I read that production number is obtained subtracting 101 to glassed printed number.
IMHO #961 means this is the 861st fiberglass hull manufactured, assuming #101 was the first one

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Sep 22nd, '24, 04:54

Well:
It seemed to me like an elephant pregnancy, but finally the frame came out from the mold.
It has been quite a journey, scanning, engineering, making math and putting the mold together, but it seems pretty like the frame that was made by Broadus Rose once, unfortunately not available anymore.

The costs for Hightide Marine assembled profiles or Lookout Frames Kit (the one installed on Bayliss 31), were too expensive, considering I had to add crate, shipping to Italy and Custom fees (all combined, something like 33% of the buying price [already expensive]) led me to consider making a mold here.

Next week we'll put the frame on the boat, in order to check if everything is fine and then we'll make the molds for curved glasses.

All clear surfaces are meant to be made out of 8mm (3.15 inches more or less) plexiglass, clear, dark and light blue-tinted, with silk-screen printing all around, like car glasses (white or black); the 2 front shields can be made out of glass, for wipers.

I'm going to put together all figures in order to get exact production costs; my aim wasn't, isn't and won't be, selling the frame and it's worthless I tell to all board Faithful, if anybody would be interested, mere production costs will be charged.

I asked to the Molder to quote me a safe wooden crate, while as far as shipping, since I'm buying tons of items for my boat overseas, I'm confident I may get some cheap quotation from my shipping Agent. Dunno how much may be charged, as far as custom fees are concerned.

What I like the most, is that from now onward, Shipyard can "LEASH HELL", since there will be no risk the flybridge may collapse onto the rest of the boat

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https://youtu.be/wiwhq655dLk?si=rooT1E_TXdNwtUa8

Oldcreek · Post by **Oldcreek** » Sep 22nd, '24, 11:50

Wow, looks amazing!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 23rd, '24, 07:10

Wow, looks amazing!
A thought on reducing crating and shipping cost may be to cut the two side sections at the pillars. They could easily be lined up and glassed on site, may even make for an easier install. Anyway, I'd be interested...only need the front section for my upper Express helm.

trace elements · Post by **trace elements** » Sep 23rd, '24, 08:25

Windshield looks great. How did the boat run with the 6.2 small blocks?

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 23rd, '24, 21:22

If I remember correctly, the frame for each 31 seems to differ slightly, so I would think before ordering measurements would need to be taken.

I think they did a great job on the mold. The finished product should look great.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Sep 24th, '24, 01:42

Carl wrote: ↑Sep 23rd, '24, 07:10 Wow, looks amazing!
A thought on reducing crating and shipping cost may be to cut the two side sections at the pillars. They could easily be lined up and glassed on site, may even make for an easier install. Anyway, I'd be interested...only need the front section for my upper Express helm.

Carl,
I'm gonna ask both, the engineering staff and the molder, where it would be better cutting the frame.
Let me tell you, even it's not the case for Express windscreen, quite a few calculation were made to be more than comfortable with loading weight on frame structure, due to flybridge superstructure; beside that, after putting frame on the boat, it seemed like it has been there since ever.
I know that upper windscreen on the Express doesn't have the shape of the lower one, but I'm wondering if glassing labor would be worth shipping savings.
Just to give you an example,I paid some sixteen hundred USD for shipping the rub rail by sea from California (crate was thin but huge)!
Shure: volume is bigger this time (W.9ft-2in x H2ft-3in x D.4ft-11in - weight: 120lbs with plexiglass shields I guess).
Let me get the best quotation I may achieve from my shipping agent for an East Coast shipment.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Sep 24th, '24, 01:54

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Sep 23rd, '24, 21:22 If I remember correctly, the frame for each 31 seems to differ slightly, so I would think before ordering measurements would need to be taken.

I think they did a great job on the mold. The finished product should look great.

Tony,
I will take measures of 2 further aluminum frames that have been dismounted from a FBC and a SportFish (as mine) by the Shipyard that made the nice blue 31 for the American Owner who kept the boat at Cinque Terre, in order to be sure figures match.
What I can tell you is that right side frame (not curved shield) is 2" shorter than left one: this will be my first investigation!

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Sep 24th, '24, 02:09

trace elements wrote: ↑Sep 23rd, '24, 08:25 Windshield looks great. How did the boat run with the 6.2 small blocks?

When I sailed the boat to the shipyard where I loaded her on the truck, she made 24ktns @ 3.300 RPM.
Boat was empty and low fuel

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Sep 24th, '24, 02:14

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Sep 23rd, '24, 21:22 ...I would think before ordering measurements would need to be taken.

I think they did a great job on the mold. The finished product should look great.

Express upper windscreen Tony, as I could see from pictures, has a completely different shape from the original front frame...

Different from this one I mean

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 24th, '24, 07:37

You make a good point, I have always taken it for granted the upper and lower frames and windows are the same...or close enough to be made to fit. I think its in order for me to go down to boat and jot down some measurements and compare.

In any case, the picture above is not an Express but a sedan, the helm is too far forward. The express has same FBC Cabin, but the helm is just aft the head...my steering wheel pump is just inside the head with controls above and just forward the bulkhead with me standing above motor.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 24th, '24, 08:01

Nevermind...no measurements needed...after 30 years I can clearly see the curved panels and frames on my helm are swept back further then the lower cabin windows. Funny...but having the front wrapped in canvas 99.9% of the time I never looked.
I guess I am a little happy as I had intended to order the plexiglass curved panels once or twice years ago when they were available, I even contemplated buying a set of old frames.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 24th, '24, 08:02

Nevermind...no measurements needed...after 30 years I can clearly see the curved panels and frames on my helm are swept back further then the lower cabin windows. Funny...but having the front wrapped in canvas 99.9% of the time I never looked.
I guess I am a little happy as I had intended to order the plexiglass curved panels once or twice years ago when they were available, I even contemplated buying a set of old frames.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Sep 24th, '24, 16:01

Carl wrote: ↑Sep 24th, '24, 07:37 In any case, the picture above is not an Express but a sedan, the helm is too far forward. The express has same FBC Cabin, but the helm is just aft the head...my steering wheel pump is just inside the head with controls above and just forward the bulkhead with me standing above motor.

You're right Carl the picture with Dick Bertram was meant to show Tony that the frame of all models (FBC, SportFish, Open, Hardtop [or Sedan] and Express Cruiser as far as lower one) are exactly the same, while the upper window of your boat, has a different shape.
If you look at the picture here below, you'll notice that the lower one has a V shape in the center, the upper one a Lambda shape

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 24th, '24, 21:23

Not sure why I thought that some didn't match up to others. I thought we had a discussion on this especially when purchasing the Fiberglass Insert to eliminate the front Windows.

In theory if the windows are all the same on the same models, then the Fiberglass insert should have been a perfect fit from boat to boat.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 25th, '24, 07:45

Francesco,
Crazy...30 years with the boat and I have seen that picture of Dick Bertram in the sedan a dozen times. Not once did it cross my mind the two sets of windshields were very different. Only this time, with some pointing out, thank you, I realized something was off. My helm windshield does not come down at that angle, maybe the sedan was different...nope...mine is.

The last picture was a Huh...how did I not see that.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Sep 25th, '24, 10:17

Even the very Best sometimes forget that 'the devil is in the details'

Stav · Post by **Stav** » Sep 26th, '24, 13:12

Francesco
You did a great job with fiberglass windows !! I m really impressed!
Stavros
Athens
31 Sportfish Cummins QSB 305HP

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 11th, '24, 09:04

Good day to all Faithful:

Side windows frames glassed and primed, front windows frame glassed, half countertop on port side removed, bow deck stripped and ready for installing new hatch, anchor roller and everything else

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Nov 11th, '24, 16:19

Great progress Franz; keep up the good work.

I look forward to taking a ride on her with you at some point in the future!

beachbum · Post by **beachbum** » Nov 11th, '24, 17:21

Hey Francesco - wow!!! - this is my wife's late father's boat (and a lot of the reason I own a Bertram 25 now). I know the family you purchased her from, my wife's family also have a house on Santa Maria.

I've been out in Eta Beta a few times, what a boat but it was in dire need of a lot of work.

Dove fai i lavori? Olbia?

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 11th, '24, 17:48

beachbum wrote: ↑Nov 11th, '24, 17:21 I know the family you purchased her from, my wife's family also have a house on Santa Maria.

I've been out in Eta Beta a few times, what a boat but it was in dire need of a lot of work.

Dove fai i lavori? Olbia?

The charming ‘Ingardis’ are one of the nicest chapter of Eta Beta’s history and I just picked up the baton from Them!

The boat is now in Livorno and she’s undertaking an extensive restoration at CNC (Cantiere Navale Calambrone).

I’m really enjoying pampering her at my best!

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 11th, '24, 17:51

Tommy wrote: ↑Nov 11th, '24, 16:19
I look forward to taking a ride on her with you at some point in the future!

Tommy:
I’ll take your word for it!

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 26th, '24, 10:13

I'm very happy with this hatch that is made by a tiny Italian Artisan based in the metallic carpentry district of Brescia (Beretta weapons area).
The hatch fits like a glove into deck opening and we saved tons of glassing labour; last but non least, it costs nothing (less than $500).
I'll have it powder coated to matching deck color (no polished stainless steel option), but it's worth the hassle

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 26th, '24, 21:07

It looks like you cut a couple of sections out of the front around the hatch and then glassed them back in. Did you do that to reinforce them?

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 27th, '24, 02:04

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Nov 26th, '24, 21:07 It looks like you cut a couple of sections out of the front around the hatch and then glassed them back in. Did you do that to reinforce them?

Hatch's frame has been centred onto original deck's edge, marked a line all around, cut the edge along the marked stripe and filled the gap in between edge's cut and hatch frame down to cabin's ceiling quota with filler...it would have been hard explaining it, even in my mother language

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 27th, '24, 21:58

LOL

Somethings are just not easy to explain.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 28th, '24, 11:53

Francesco,

I'll be damned if I understood anything but it sure looks nice!

I understand you will NOT use the boat as a live aboard, otherwise the ONLY solution to the scorching Mediterranean sun would be an all fiberglass hatch-like the original one- that does not let the sun in, unless you open it.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 29th, '24, 02:05

Yannis wrote: ↑Nov 28th, '24, 11:53 Francesco,

I understand you will NOT use the boat as a live aboard, otherwise the ONLY solution to the scorching Mediterranean sun would be an all fiberglass hatch-like the original one- that does not let the sun in, unless you open it.

Yannis,
The hatch will have a sky/mosquito screen on cabin ceiling and I'm planning to have two air-conditioning units (mainly for winter heating), one installed in bow cabin and second one in main cabin

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 29th, '24, 02:43

Francesco,

I'm interested to see what type of AC you will consider (btu's, watts, brand...).
Thank you.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 29th, '24, 08:19

Yannis,

I'm evaluating 2 systems made by 2 different domestic brands: one is Veco, the other one is Velair:

- Veco - Model MCN9K3RCJ COMPACT 9 RC 230/1/50-60 (10.000 BTU/h)
- Velair - Model i10 VSD SMART (10.000 BTU/h)

The first one is manufactured by a well known Italian Company, it's slightly more expensive and is installed by the factory
The Second one is a bit cheaper and perhaps easier in terms of assistance, due they have lots of installers all around the Country

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 30th, '24, 07:13

Look into the AC models made specifically for motor homes and camping cars.
There is a specific model I was looking at that hangs directly on the window so that half of it is inside and half outside.
I was thinking of placing the outside unit on the flybridge floor under the seat and the inside unit right underneath, on the cabin ceiling.

All goods that are common to both boats and motor homes (hatches, mosquito nets, portholes, stainless items etc) cost half price if you buy them from a camping retailer.
Why? Boaters are young and rich, campers are retired and poor!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 1st, '24, 09:16

Yannis wrote: ↑Nov 30th, '24, 07:13 Why? Boaters are young and rich, campers are retired and poor!

Yannis…you’re young and rich?

Person I work with recently upgraded his “camper” to a two floor model with hydraulic extending walls, big flatscreens mounted each room, central air/heat and vacuuming. Has a boat and a golf cart to get around.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Dec 2nd, '24, 01:17

Carl,

As you are aware, unless a product is destined specifically for Seniors, over 65 that is, companies don't even consider these elderly people as a target group.

When you study the various market research figures, the ones that companies pay top dollar to acquire every two months or so, all data stop at 65.
In other words we are not even considered as consumers any more...companies will only try to reach all age brackets except those of over 65.
This doesn't mean that people over 65 don't spend, it means rather that all seniors' outlay is so little compared to what the younger ones spend that it doesn't make any sense to allocate any resources to reach them.

So, boats and products for boats are mainly targeted toward younger affluent professionals, whereas all campervan goods are targeted toward seniors who are usually pensioners and spend less. Hence lower prices for the same item! I bought my hatch mosquito net (a sliding roller with mosquito net on one side and dark blind on the other) for 60-70€ from a campervan catalog. Same item for boaters (in boaters' outlet) was above 300€.

We are swiftly approaching the age of societal oblivion!! LOL !!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 2nd, '24, 08:55

It was too easier to agree with you Yannis and you left the young rich boater open. I agree with much of what you originally said along with you're follow up answer even though I felt a need to bring up the area outside the norm.

That said companies do need to start looking at the over 65 crowd as it is growing fast.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Dec 2nd, '24, 13:38

There are exceptions to every rule.
Companies do look into the elderly population with products designed specifically for them.
However, they don't even dare admit explicitly that these products are for the elderly!
Look into the ads: Products like night single-use panties, or, this glue thing for dentures...the people in the ads are usually in their 50's! They also smile and dance while using them...I doubt that any senior with such bladder issues wear these panties and go out to dance the night away as you see them in these ads!