New member with an inquiry

[gottmoore]

I have an "original" '79 28 FBC that needs repowered.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/GmphyRTq4nM1koj6A


2) gen 1 260 Mercruisers -1 rebuild with Vortec heads
port seized, starboard not worth starting-
Both w fuel in crankcase (mech fuel pumps).
Both with oil in heat exchangers
All accessories old...original quadrajets on Edelbrock intakes
Exhaust manifolds original
Trannys =good (as far as I know)
exhaust =velocijet original-not good on port (restricted @transom, upper free)
Fuel tank @180 original
Stringers- not perfect on port, not soft

So much for details. I'm sure it's time for a pair of crate motors, long blocks won't cut it. Suggestions welcome

[Tony Meola]

What size shafts are in her. A small diesel will work with 1 3/8 inch shafts. If it still has the fiberglass tank, I am surprised the ethanol has not killed everything.

If you stay gas, a small block v8 with fuel injection should work perfectly for you. Crusader or Mercruiser take your pick.

[gottmoore]

Not sure on shaft size, but will check.

The tank is aluminum. Not sure about past, however when I got it, put in a gallon of Seafoam. Then ran about 80 gallons down. I filled with 150 of Rec90, and added 2 gallons of Seafoam. The fuel filters were reasonably fresh at buy, nothing substantial in filters after run.

My bigger picture is fitment in existing space. Port is a counter rotation, but I've found gen 1 260 long blocks on Jegs. I'm still shopping, and looking at local vendors here in Florida. With the age of most components, i just don't see transfer having value. The hours are low, but.....

After the powerplants, I also think the exhuasts need rework. Likely a 3" straight. The port side has a restriction at transom outlet. Most liquid and gas goes through the "upper". Starboard is fine. If I do 1, the other will be treated the same.

[gottmoore]

I realize I'm long winded Tony, thanks for continued patience.

I've looked at putting a bracket & outboards. This requires reinforcing the transom, removing fuel tank. and redistribution of weight to accommodate. Great idea, but a LOT of dry time and $$.

The change to diesel is interesting, your suggestion appreciated. Likely new trannys, but I would still consider.

A straight powerplant swap possible single handed. But even then, being honest with myself is required.

I'm smart enough to know i can't do most of these options by myself. I don't need faster, but more efficient would be welcome. I want the cockpit to stay as is.

Money is always a consideration-a luxury is only worth so much. Using said benefit requires money being thrown at it regularly too!

[Carl]

Short money is to buy a pair of Running Take Outs that fit with all the assorted needed. A good place to start your search is a place that does gas to diesel conversions.

I pulled good motor with everything to install diesels. I sold my two motors for 1k. True high hours, but very dependable, never letting me down.

I’d have motors checked though… some have a mess before repower if. Others push the hell out of them before realizing they need more power.
But good deals with guy that ran the motors right with proper maintenance can be found.

Crate motors is a definite option at a cost.
Diesel is a definite option at a larger cost.


Exhaust restriction? The way I’m reading it you’re referring to port being submerged a bit. If that’s the case, it’s not an issue. When you get going there is no water at the transom when on plane.
If other can you explain.

Straight exhaust works…but can be annoying after awhile. Take it from someone who talked their dad into doing that. The worked 327 sounded awesome, starting n running…after 6 hours trolling snd long ride home, not do much. And that’s was when was a young teen.

Lots of thought, opinions and knowledge here, keep the questions coming and decide what makes sence for you now.

Good luck n welcome

[Ironworker]

I'm not a fan of gas inboard engines in boats. Lots of potential for bad things to happen especially in older boats. Yes it's going to be pricey to switch to diesel but its safer and in the long run more economical. The cost of shafts and struts, rebuilding the engine beds, engine boxes and exhaust all has to taken into consideration with the conversion.

I lived in Crystal River, FL in the early 80's. It was not unusual to see a big smoke column about once a month or so during the summer while out on the water.

Where are you in Florida?

[gottmoore]

Stuart area. 10 mi to St Lucie inlet, 6-8 to Gulfstream.

As far as the powerplants, i agree there are benfits to move away from inboard gassers. I don't like needing a set of blowers either. I did put a new pair in..

If i can find comparable diesels that fit in current space, I'll consider it. I need to verify running gear-I think they are velvet drives, and port is set for a counter motor.

The outboard route is simply cost and time prohibitive but a great idea if done well. I see the advantages, but I like the swim platform as is...

[gottmoore]

To reply to the current exhaust condition:

Typical factory velocijet system. I think these were designed around the higher compression Crusader 351. Mine Mercruiser 260 gen1

Transom- Both sides are 1" +/- above waterline even with full fuel.. Looks like1-1/2 or 2" exit
At sides- smaller rectangular vents about 18" up on gunwale, in about 2' from transom.

Port has lower volume of fluid at transom, with constant fluid and vapors to side.
Starboard has good fliud flow to transom, vapors out side. I only see "side" fluid at throttle punch from idle and maybe some at 2500+

Bottom line- I think there is greater back pressure in port exhaust. That may be a contribution to the seized condition, dont know. Something is not correct there.

If I change 1, they both go. Understood on noise, but I need proper back pressure more.
On motors-
I understand the pull out route, but would be lucky if i didn't buy someone else's problems. (Paranoia is not easy to live with after buying a boat like I did.)
I'd rather drop the extra dimes than lose the dollars..

[Carl]

Simple is pulling motors and replacing with the same.

Outboards are ez if boat was designed for them…have to beef up transom, incorporate load to stringers, configure steering….all doable, but outside simple.

Lower torque, high rev diesels with moderate hp is not so bad to convert as running gear can be left as is, add pitch to wheel, add return fuel lines, stringers would be ok if in good shape. But Yanmars or Steyres are a good bit of coin.

Yes, run them diesels long enough you can recoup the expense…but key words are run them long enough. It’s a big outlay upfront for an extra bit of economy.



Risk with gas… taking all the precautions I consider them safe. I would never put my family onboard otherwise. Skip the procedures like bilge sniff before starting up, skip using ignition protected items…all bets are off.


My .02

[Ironworker]

Looks, like I'm just south of you in N. Palm Beach. I just went through most everything you have been considering. It was an expensive, exhausting 18 months. I'm currently in the boatyard trying to get my boat painted and doing some adjustments on the running gear.

[gottmoore]

1st-I really appreciate the inputs! They all have been helpful.

2nd-Thanks for putting up with me!!

Shazam-
I'm starting what I see as a long duration process. I know it will be worth it, but I'm slightly conservative on luxuries, so everything "at it's own pace".

This topic-
The quick and likely route is crate motors to match with fresh gauges, some wiring. I want it back in form without major deviations. (Please refer to above)

And now, it's time for "What you don't know":

Interior-
above average: factory AC, head /shower, dinette, and galley. Very well-maintained- mostly original. Some pics eventually
Exterior-
needs bottom paint, but is smooth Running gear clean
Topside
needs paint, but is "25' good"
Structural
Dry hull, minor delam front port engine mount stringer.
No gen set= ok. 20a/120v =EZ

Overall-
Despite the current minor setback, I know I'm very fortunate to have found what I have.


Side note-
The short term brighter side:

Luckily, I also have an '87 Mako20 since '94 with a fresh 175 Suzuki 4stroke. Great day boat @<3' offshore & good inshore.

[Amberjack]

This looks like a clean boat and apparently well kept by the former owner. So many of the projects we see on this site are old and run down suitable only for a complete tear down and rebuild, essentially for the hull only. With the boat apparently useable and looking good (important) replacing the motors with new identical units makes sense. Plug 'em in and continue to enjoy.

What is the name? I couldn't make out from the images.

[gottmoore]

Shazam

Thanks!!!

Here's a short vid of interior "public space" from shortly after purchase. I dropped the "Ed MacMann" voiceover

https://photos.app.goo.gl/X9jPcVjqYbsoeY2j7

Yep, I think it's an uncommon find. Mostly original, with bought factory upgrades. The AC works, both systems wiring aren't too bad, has original halon kit for engine room.
The paisley wallpaper is a "TRIP". The head had foil, now gone to paint. I added curtains all around, still working on fresh water pump.
Believe it or not, the original Bertram cabin logos and #s were in a drawer

[Tony Meola]

The boat looks good. Hard to find a clean used boat.

It looks like you have gotten some pretty good ideas on what to look at. Keeping her gas is the easiest option. If you plan on taking her to the Bahammas a lot, then really think diesel.

Increasing rudder size is a must no matter what power you put in.

It looks like your best bet right now is finding gas engines.

A friend of mine has a 28 with Yanmars. He eliminated the split exhaust and ran his exhaust straight back and needed to increase the size of the exhaust. I would think eliminating the split exhaust would require increasing the exhaust size.

Is it possible the exhaust restriction is the velocijet not directing the exhaust correctly on that side?

Good luck in your engine search. It is tough finding counter rotating engines. Today that is all handled through the transmissions.

[JeremyD]

My 28 (a 1986) always seemed to run better on her toes in the top end of the rpm band. Not good for gas mileage - but ran better that way. I'd always thought that if I repowered her (she has 260 mercruisers) - that I'd probably do a pair of 383's or an LS3 aluminum engine. The problem when you get further away from the current configuration is the cost of replacing components and systems.

Other than that - and I was not a fan of the roll on a drift - they are great boats and super under appreciated for their size and capabilities

[pschauss]

Good luck in your engine search. It is tough finding counter rotating engines. Today that is all handled through the transmissions.

Michiganmotorz lists a counter rotating version of its replacement for the Mercruiser 260.

BTW, it’s usually the starboard engine which counter rotates.

[gottmoore]

Ok,
I'm reasonably sure the port is counter as each wheel should turn "outboard" in forward, but I'll check.
Thanks

[MarkD]

I went through this very thing about 7 years ago with my B28. I bought motors from Michigan Motorz and did a few component swaps. Happy to talk you through it if you’d like. Price was very reasonable and HP was up around 300. Higher revenge Vortec engines. Pm me or send me a note and we can connect. Desautellemark @ gmail

[gottmoore]

I think it may be helpful, I certainly found it informative. I have a few more that may be interesting as well. If there is a better posting place, please let me know.

The link below a written motor rotation reference.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/7U24GUzNbecgdxEJ7

[Tony Meola]

I think it may be helpful, I certainly found it informative. I have a few more that may be interesting as well. If there is a better posting place, please let me know.

The link below a written motor rotation reference.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/7U24GUzNbecgdxEJ7

Not sure I follow you. If you reach out to Mark as he suggested might be able to direct, you to a potential source of an engine.

[gottmoore]

Not an issue, Tony.
My last post here helps with counter rotation motor identification. It certainly cleared the issue for me, and I'm sure it will be useful to others. The question that ties to it is where can I put informative links so they're listed by subject.

As to my motors, I'm still in process using "least modification" plan.
I'm set on gen1 long blocks, the accessories ala carte. I have found several vendors to review. Most are relative equal on bill of material, core charges and shipping are variable. The accessories go to an "as needed" instead of all new.

Florida is a preferred choice for me, I'll pick up at vendor.
*I have appropriate means to transport and store
*Timing is planned "day event", not on standby for the LTL
*No forklift offload needed at destination

All the above doesnt mean I'll spend less. I just want value for the investment. I have an odd habit of beating ALL the pennies out of a dollar
Edit=spelling

[Carl]

Ok,
I'm reasonably sure the port is counter as each wheel should turn "outboard" in forward, but I'll check.
Thanks

Looking from the stern forward, the left side of the boat is port.
The left side has left-hand wheel turning outboard with a standard left-hand rotating motor. Left-hand motors are considered standard rotation just like your car or truck motor.

On the Right-side we want the Right- hand wheel turning to the right to achieve an outboard rotation. Old transmission designs (gears) could not accomplish flipping the rotation efficiently, so the motors were designed to counter-rotate.

Today the new style transmissions can transmit the power in the same rotation or flip the rotation with near-equal efficiency eliminating the need for counter-rotating motors.