Eliminating grab rails on fly bridge

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 22nd, '23, 21:29

I have been thinking about moving to some type of hard or soft top to replace the Bimini. I am currently talking with a Fabricator about a buggy style soft top. It would have all the plates and supports to hold radar, antenna (s), Steaming and Anchor light.

While going over everything with him, I realized that I probably would have to eliminate the grab rails on the fly bridge and possible reposition the horns. The horns no problem, but I have a tendency to use the grab rails every time I go forward.

For those of you who have eliminated the grab rails, how has it been going forward in a sloppy sea?

I am hesitant to eliminate them completely. I realize that I will some support by grabbing the top supports but after moving past them it may be iffy.
Would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jun 22nd, '23, 23:07

Tony,

Install a rail on the fb side at waist/shoulder level that you can hold onto while still you move on the fb side.

Install (tie) a rope connecting the two fb sides, that runs on top of the protrusion (eyebrow) on top of the front windows. This you can do if you already have the two rails that run on top of the fb sides. If you dont, install two SS eyes on either side.

Install a «Π» shaped rail on top of the front deck, centered on the anchor/front window axis.

As you move forward, you first grab the side rails, then you grab the rope and start moving inwards on the front deck. Then you use the fwd middle rail to arrive at the anchor.

The rope part is very easy and very useful.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jun 22nd, '23, 23:36

Reading all this again I realize that the 31 is different than the 28. My understanding is that you wish to remove the rails that I propose you to install on the sides.

However, it shouldn't change the outcome as the new bimini support verticals will do the same job as the grab rails you wish to remove. Until you reach the rope!

Snipe · Post by **Snipe** » Jun 23rd, '23, 06:52

Tony I use the hard top to hold on as well as the lip under the fly bridge all the way around I plan on painting underneath with nonskid. I worked on a hatteras and it was painted under there and gave a good grip when moving around.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 23rd, '23, 23:30

Actually the top will look similar to yours but the front cross brace is eliminated.

I wasn't sure if the front leg would be far enough forward to work your way forward. Then I was thinking about having the fabricator make me two short rails to mount forward of the front leg.

If I go this route I have to pug up a couple of screw holes from the hand rail and try and not make the repair look too obvious.

Yannis
The rope idea could work in a pinch.

Now i just need to convince my wife this is going to work and pray she never falls in while we are docking.

gottmoore · Post by **gottmoore** » Jun 24th, '23, 08:59

Take a look at my 1st post pictures. You may find a solution for your upper support/shade. 4 verts on arch into FB rear taper. EASY for cable routings, clean for clutter. STRONG build- I actually use the shade build as "steadying" grab bar when standing
Handholds
I intend to add an 18" handhold on each side of the cabin front above windshield at same elevation as side grab rail.
It's the worst area- tight foot space, change in elevation of deck, & no hand hold inboard. In "beam" heading, not fun at all...

Amberjack · Post by **Amberjack** » Jun 24th, '23, 14:49

Tony-I mounted an arch and was able to keep the grab rail by having the support members attach behind them in back and outside them on the front. But this was a bit more of a commercial look with larger diameter members. Not for everyone.

Side deck/foredeck safety primarily rests with personal decision making. My poor decision in brisk weather a couple years ago almost killed me in Malaspina Strait BC. when I was hanging on to the cabin brow thinking if I could only reach the grab rails 3' away I might make it out of there alive. If you take the bridge grab rails off it becomes that much further to safety. My solution is to not allow anyone on the side decks or foredeck unless the boat is in harbor or a protected anchorage.

I like your idea of short rails forward of the Bimini stanchion. In fact I would carry them all the way around the brow. The brow itself is not really a safe grab.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 25th, '23, 00:00

Doug

I agree with your assessment about going forward in rough weather, and as you know sometimes it can not be avoided. I have gone through the hatch when I thought walking around was not worth the risk. I have been there also when grabbing the hand rail was just feet away but seemed like you just weren't going to make it.

Gottmore

It seems on the 28 the arch on the fly bridge side is wider than the 31. Most of the tops I have seen on the 28 mount on the arch the same way as you have yours.

Weather was iffy here today, hopefully tomorrow I can spend time reviewing all my mounting options and the best way to proceed.

I appreciate all the input and pictures.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 25th, '23, 08:24

Under the best conditions I can have a mis~step on the gunnel. Could be ideal conditions dockside putting the spring line on or washing the side.

When I lose balance and reach for something quick I do not believe there is anything better to catch myself then a well placed grab rail.

I most likely could train myself to reach for the underside of the brow…but what about others. And how well can a person hold onto a downturned brow compared to wrapping a hand onto a railing. To secure n steady, both are good…falling and reaching for in a fall is another story.

Tony- A custom hardtop is custom. If you think the grab rails should stay for you, for your wife, for guests, use the custom word to incorporate the design of stanchion to keeping grab rails. Maybe that means mounting the hardtop to the brow and not by grab rails….or

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 26th, '23, 00:06

Carl

I hear you.

I haven't walked my wife through it yet. I know she will say giving up the hand rail is a bad idea.

I am thinking that the top stanchion will work for part of the way forward, and then a short railing from that point on should solve the problem.

As Doug stated, there are times I wished that railing was a little further forward.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jun 26th, '23, 01:45

Tony,

There was a hand rail on top of the side lip on the 28, I made it longer so it now extends all the length of the lip.

Additionally I added a second handle (30cm approx.) on the fb side, at shoulder height. Once that forward, you can grab the rope and it’s very safe to walk all the way to the foredeck.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 26th, '23, 08:23

Tony- I think with a little thought a top can be designed to be both functional and sleek with grab rails, be they original or new. It may not be the standard Off-The-Shelf, cookie-cutter design fabricators tend to stick with. But that distinguishes the men from the boys.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 26th, '23, 20:51

Carl

The guy I am dealing with is not an off the shelf kind of guy. He use to work for Palm Beach Towers working mostly at the Viking Yacht yard with travel to other locations for jobs. I found him by accident, after I went to one builder who said we will make it you install it. Yes a bit cheaper, but potentially more expensive if I screw up cutting it down to size. UGH!

They said to me its easy you just build a jig to hold the top up while you fit it to the boat.

I have to ask him a few more questions, but I started to think about it, it will look similar to Jason's but without the forward bars. It is a soft top. I am starting to think about having him build the grab rail right into the stanchion. Just weld it to the stanchion on one end and the other attach to the bridge just like the current one is attached.

I have to have a further discussion with him. It would be nice if he was just a little closer, since catching up with these guys this time of year is tough. Plus, he builds a lot of special railing for decks and stairs for all these high-end houses going up on Long Beach Island.

My wife keeps on reminding me that once I do this, undoing it is not happening. LOL

Snipe · Post by **Snipe** » Jun 27th, '23, 05:23

Tony I got mine from Atlantic towers I had to cut mine down as well it wasn’t to bad of a job and all in all for the money I think it’s a pretty good product.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 27th, '23, 09:35

No forward supports Tony?

That's seems to be alot of surface area up over the helm to catch air. Plus equipment mounted on top but mostly as it will be used as a grab rail and support by guests when moving around in seas.
I think the tower buggy tops get away with only back supports as they are much smaller, plus the person has the tower frame for support. I could be wrong, but its my .02.

Yup on the option of incorporating the grab rails into the design...or working around the original. I don't think it would look great with fly bridge...but on the Express the grab rails are mounted to the top of the brow/top of the cabin.

My thought is to explore all options before starting the build process.

Yes, like Jason said, installing is not too bad. Provided you have a couple of capable people to help lift and hold. I put my tower up the first time with 2 friends...not bad. The 2nd time after the conversion it was me, a friend and a travel lift. Made it super easy, hoisted with chain fall, then one person guided into place while driving forward.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 27th, '23, 21:17

Jason

Actually it was Atlantic Towers in Bayville that I went to first. I just did not see myself wrestling with the top and then cutting it to size. I was kind of surprised that they do not do any installs. Did you cut it with a Cut off wheel?

Carl

I am working on the top size with the Fabricator. He knows it needs to match the Bimini. So that covers a 6 x 5 area. I plan on verifying the size before we start. If we start. Who knows I may wind up someplace else before this process is finished.

No matter who I use it will be the end of the season before anyone can get to it. If I can get Oceanview Towers to give me a few minutes I may even wind up using them. They install and they travel up my way a lot so I can get them to install it up in Lacey Township where the boat is.

Lets see where this goes.

Snipe · Post by **Snipe** » Jun 28th, '23, 08:02

Tony yes a cut off wheel worked best then sanded with a long block to get it closer. They used to do installs I just opted to do it myself.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 28th, '23, 09:22

Jason-
What wheel did you use? I always find they clog up badly in alum, usually opting for a sawzall.

Snipe · Post by **Snipe** » Jun 28th, '23, 19:18

Carl I mark it off with painters tape to get a straight line then scribe with the wheel all around then cut through slowly it does clog a little but cuts well enough. I only had to make six cuts I tried a pipe cutter but it made marks. The pipe is fairly thin it worked ok as long as I didn’t try to push right through.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 28th, '23, 20:37

Jason

Easy for you and Carl. Carl is a Machinist and I believe that you have the talent to handle this type of job. While I am handy and tackle a lot of things, I know my limits.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 29th, '23, 08:25

I cannot speak for Jason.

I don't think it was easy fitting the tower. I said it was not bad, and that was mainly because I already built, or should I say rebuilt it at the shop with mounting pads welded in place. The task was to lift it up on boat, then over cabin and into place on the gunnels. That was after driving the tower from shop to the boat across the island with it strapped to the outside of my pickup. Not sure how I did not get pulled over for that...

The 2nd time it was ez as it was just going back on, I knew how and where it fit. I removed the tower to pull the old motors and install the diesels without having to deal with a boom.

For me the big thing was to have a game plan with the willingness to toss it all out the window if something better presented itself. The other great thing about an aluminum pipe structure...it's pretty forgiving, a little push or pull can be the difference between fitting perfectly or not. That and when in doubt, cut it long and trim. It takes longer that way but lets you ease into perfection.

Jason-
That is a pretty thin wheel. Yikes! I thought 1/16 was on the edge for handheld. I can see it getting the job done even if it clogged up a little.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 29th, '23, 20:53

Carl

Exactly

That is why I will let someone who has done this before handle it. I will stick to keeping the engines running.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 30th, '23, 06:50

Tony-

Sometimes it is a much smarter decision to write a check for a job well done.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jun 30th, '23, 19:29

Just move them down from the vertical side to the horizontal top of the cabin lip edge.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 30th, '23, 23:03

Raleigh

I am considering. I found a picture of a 31 that did that. I have to think about the best way of anchoring them down.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jul 1st, '23, 06:10

Bolt from underside

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jul 2nd, '23, 00:16

There is not a lot of room. The rail would almost be right on the edge of the bridge.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jul 3rd, '23, 08:04

Ok, than how about a pair of these with rail between-

https://www.freeportmarine.com/sea-dog- ... n-7-8.html

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jul 3rd, '23, 20:14

The space between the fb wall and the lip is less than 5cm in the 28, plenty of room for a handrail.
However the height is too low to guarantee a safe passage. A rail at shoulder height is very useful.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jul 3rd, '23, 20:19

Yannis-

Sometimes you take what you get n say thanks.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jul 3rd, '23, 23:29

Carl wrote: ↑Jul 3rd, '23, 20:19 Yannis-

Sometimes you take what you get n say thanks.

Carl

Funny but true.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jul 4th, '23, 11:20

Carl,

Was this about the 5cm?

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jul 5th, '23, 06:41

Yannis- I meant it more along the lines of waiting for that 100% perfect solution is not always the best choice.

saburke17 · Post by **saburke17** » Jul 15th, '23, 12:39

Tony I'm currently painting the flybridge and I removed my grab rails. I have a hardtop and outriggers so i have plenty to grab onto. In fact I've almost fell off a few times by mis grabbing.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jul 17th, '23, 00:10

The top I am thinking about will not have the front support attached to the forward part off the bridge. Once I move forward I will not have anything to grab. That is my main concern.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jul 18th, '23, 09:34

Tossing around grabrail ideas...

I don't think it would be all that difficult to create a grab rail kind of thing into the bridge brow. A few oval cutouts or pockets down the length that are set in a little bit. They can be radiused to grab and hold while keeping the clean bridge lines.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jul 18th, '23, 19:54

Carl

I am working on it. Trying to come up with a design that fits. I am going to need to also do some minor glass work to close up the holes from the old rail and a couple of other spots. Shouldn't be too bad.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jul 19th, '23, 05:36

After redoing the flybridge I’m putting my hand rails back. It obviously looks better without them and the underside of the brow does work. But I’ve had a number of occasions either early in the morning when there is condensation on deck or cleaning in the afternoon when I’ve slipped. Trying to grab underneath and applying force upward won’t save you.

I’m personally a lot more worried around the dock then I am out in rough weather. I can avoid going up there or popping through the hatch in open water. Around the dock I worry myself or someone else falls over at the dock and smacks their head on an adjacent boat on the way in the water. It could happen at night or in off hours when you are flying solo just down there solo checking on the boat.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Jul 19th, '23, 07:20

I remember Marlin posting pics of his boat the WAHOO---he had fabricated a white drip/handrail---probably fiberglass---

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Jul 19th, '23, 09:07

http://bertram31.com/marlin/wahoo.jpg

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jul 19th, '23, 20:49

That is a slick look on Marlin's boat, but I wonder how easy that is to grab. Like Peter said, I have had occasions I have needed to grab something quick. I have fallen over while at the dock when trying to reach clean something or reach something when I should know better. When I did, I knew I was safe so I just went with it.

Cost me a cell phone but hey, so did the time my wife threw my jeans in the wash with my phone in the pocket.

Once i get this figured out and get the top done I will post a picture, but at this point and timing of the welders work it looks more like in the spring.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jul 20th, '23, 01:20

Tony,

The original grab rails on the top sides, a 30-40cm stainless handle at shoulder height on the fb and the rope connecting the two original rails, thats all you need.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jul 20th, '23, 21:44

Yannis

I am also thinking about having the guy that builds the Top, modify the existing grab rail. Possibly make it shorter, eliminate the middle brace and just use the front and rear brace.

To do that we would need to install the top and then measure out what we need in length from the grab rail that is there.