1966 31 Re-imagined

Lotzster · Post by **Lotzster** » Oct 8th, '22, 20:03

Gentlemen I'd like to share with you what's sure to be one of the more wild Bertram 31 re-fits ever. I recently got a 1966 Bahia Mar. It's a bucket list boat for me. I've wanted one since I was a boy. It will be a long road to the end as this will be a comprehensive outrageous build.
I work as a marine professional doing fiberglass builds refits repairs and paint. So while I am confident in my workmanship in the shop I am much less so experienced at social sharing here. Bear with my novice. I however could not go through this journey without sharing it with the enthusiasts here. I've been casually reading here for years. Hopefully there's some interest out there in this project.
I've done this work at a high level now for a long time and have crawled around and worked on everything from work skiffs to yachts and have been out on the water putting them through their paces since the 80's.
Currently I run a very custom 1969 Formula 233 that I built up over 15 years ago. I've honored the late great Don Arronow. Now it's time to pay homage to Dick Bertram and the legendary Bertram 31. That being said this build won't be for everyone. It's getting significant modification. Sorry.
The boat is in the dojo now and the ninjas are working on it. When I figure out pictures and posting them I will start updating the progress.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Oct 8th, '22, 22:45

Always look forward to these, hope your journey is quicker then mine. By interesting I hope you mean turning it into a houseboat with outboards painted in non binary colors because the comments can be more interesting then the build itself.

All joking aside, Best of luck.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 9th, '22, 00:00

Good luck. We all look forward to seeing what you have in mind.

Pictures are a requirement.

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Oct 9th, '22, 07:45

Lotzster,

Welcome to the B31 Forum. The pic thing is fairly simple once you understand the rules. Post on a picture sharing site. I use dropbox. Then copy a link where the photo is stored (share link)

click on the photo button at the message window then paste the link inside the brackets. At the end of the link you'll see your link and then dl=0 Change than to raw=1

You're good to go!

I'm looking forward to seeing Pics of your boat. I'm getting close to finishing my rebuild. Its been almost a year and I'm knocking on the $300K door invested in her.

Let me add about the photos. If you're taking them on an iphone then you will need to email them to yourself. That does the conversion to a .jpg file otherwise it won't work.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Oct 9th, '22, 07:56

I look forward to seeing your vision come to be.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Oct 9th, '22, 15:42

Looking forward to the B31 pics, but would also really like to see the F233 pics. I have my Dad's 1967 F233, that he bought new (I was eight), and I'm thinking about a redo.

Lotzster · Post by **Lotzster** » Oct 11th, '22, 20:45

Thanks for the warm welcome gentlemen.
John F had asked about the F233 and I think that's relevant because I would very much like to replicate what I have on the F233 but on the bigger badder B31 platform.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/21euL7LStsJUqoQ88
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iXV55nrw4HCBh1MZ7
Not a best glimpse shot, that's the count on average run numbers, 25mph at 11gph. Not many hulls at any cost that will get through the slop that efficient and cover the ground that I do. Bottom and bait fish Montauk, sport fish south of block, Paynes for happy hour (RIP Mr. Payne) and home by dark (Stonington) on 60 gallons ish. I know the B31 will need a little more energy to get along but I would like to think I can find a parallel sweet cruise.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7iEsKorhY1ibqNoT7
Here it is a 66 Bahia Mar that someone stripped out and gave up on.
Here is the build concept for her. Again sorry to the purists.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Na1TVi6i4dDSKCDq6
Always liked the Bahia Mar over the FBC but wanted a more balanced express style version (aka helm more aft and drier). This will be my express B31.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/25xAJsZyETeaZpLB9
Seaworthy/capable, fast and sexy, are the must haves.
It has begun...

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Oct 12th, '22, 05:44

If I don't like it, I won't buy it. That does not mean I cannot admire it.

Looking at your F233 build you do seem to have the talent to design and carry through so best of luck with the 31 project. Nice drawing...I can see where you are headed. If you have not seen it, take a look for a gent on the forum from the Caribbean (Virgin Islands ?) who did a similar build with outboards on a Bahia Mar. Awesome looking with impressive numbers.

The top as drawn adds a nice modern look with classic lines...keep the pictures and updates coming. Ask whatever, lots of great information is to be had here.

Carl

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Oct 12th, '22, 08:31

I like it! My concern is weight and buoyancy. You are going to have to add significant weight to the hull, in the right places, to get it to float correctly and not bob like a cork.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Oct 12th, '22, 11:06

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7iEsKorhY1ibqNoT7
Here it is a 66 Bahia Mar that someone stripped out and gave up on.
Here is the build concept for her. Again sorry to the purists.

At this point in the life of a 31, there are really no purists left except not to make a 31 into a Winnebago looking craft.
I remember when the first outboard 31 came up on the board some were like how dare you, but most were not.
When the project came to the end, the looks and performance were outstanding.

Everyone has different needs and desires and given the projects that have been owner done on this board, they all turned out incredible.

I did my first 31 job back in the early 90's before it was popular and way before this forum was dreamed up. It was sold and redone twice to the new owners specs and still going today.

Look forward to your completed results and performance.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Oct 12th, '22, 18:32

Your F233 looks great. Looking forward to your B31 build. They're a great platform to make into whatever you like.

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Oct 13th, '22, 09:28

I agree with the other comments - The B31 is a great platform to retore and improve on - it's the restomod of the boating world.

It's been done for years in the auto world with such cars as the Singer
https://singervehicledesign.com/

Shelby Mustang
https://www.eleanor-mustang.com/

ECD does defenders and E=types
https://ecdautodesign.com/jaguar-etypes/

really just depends on how much money you have and how far you want to go.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Oct 13th, '22, 11:58

Jeremy is correct on boats being the same as restomods.
Here is my 66 Mustang fastback with Coyote engine and 6 speed auto trans along with all new sheetmetal and race suspension. I spent 3 years on this car, like a boat owner does.
This is what I do for a living now.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Oct 13th, '22, 12:10

Beautiful drawing and execution on the old boat. The lines look a lot like the new Albemarles. I may suggest considering moving things a bit more forward and giving yourself more cockpit space. Unless you have an elaborate cabin worked out.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Oct 13th, '22, 19:34

Bruce wrote: ↑Oct 13th, '22, 11:58 Jeremy is correct on boats being the same as restomods.
Here is my 66 Mustang fastback with Coyote engine and 6 speed auto trans along with all new sheetmetal and race suspension. I spent 3 years on this car, like a boat owner does.
This is what I do for a living now.

How dare you put that car together with anything other than factory components. It was meant to have iron in its belly, you'll ruin the balance, you should have just stared with a car that came with that engine, you've ruined a classic...etcetera....etcetera and any other layman, armchair, criticism I've overlooked.

DanielM · Post by **DanielM** » Oct 13th, '22, 21:35

Well now that this thread has taken an unexpected turn I guess I’ll weight in.

I used to mess with those old Mustangs for years. I love a faithfully restored original car.

But I did one for my daughter 20 years ago when she was in high school. I tried to remain faithful to the original…but I did have a moment of weakness and put an electronic component in place of the ‘points’ below a stock distributor…. Be careful, it’s a slippery slope once you start down the Restomod road.

I agree Geebert it’s scandalous to stray from the original vision. Shocking to see what this country has come to…

Oh and…

Lotzter,

Cool concept. It will be fun to live vicariously through your rebuild. Post lots of pictures.

Bruce,

Sharp ‘Stang Bro. If I ever got back into Mustangs I think I’d want you to build me one just like that. Just like old boats they take lots of $$$ and time.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 14th, '22, 07:24

someday when I have a house with a garage again, a factory five cobra with a coyote engine is on the docket.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Oct 14th, '22, 07:26

Bruce--would love to see more pics of your stang

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Oct 14th, '22, 07:27

There is a reason that the Bertram brand failed in the market. They did not keep up with what the market demanded.

My B31 had mods over the years such as beign repowered with Volvo diesels, etc. but many of the original shortcomings remained. It had no storage, the flybridge was inadequate for a modern electronics suite and it was a wet boat (all shortcomings of the original design). Those were different times in the 60's.

No way would I spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in a rebuild without correcting those deficiencies. However, in correcting those deficiencies I think its important to do so in a manner that made these great boats and honoring the Bertram look.

Just take a look at my 1964 Bertram 20. Its been modified and is a great boat but still a head turner.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Oct 14th, '22, 08:25

Ironworker wrote: ↑Oct 14th, '22, 07:27 There is a reason that the Bertram brand failed in the market. They did not keep up with what the market demanded.

My B31 had mods over the years such as beign repowered with Volvo diesels, etc. but many of the original shortcomings remained. It had no storage, the flybridge was inadequate for a modern electronics suite and it was a wet boat (all shortcomings of the original design). Those were different times in the 60's.

No way would I spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in a rebuild without correcting those deficiencies. However, in correcting those deficiencies I think its important to do so in a manner that made these great boats and honoring the Bertram look.

Just take a look at my 1964 Bertram 20. Its been modified and is a great boat but still a head turner.

Your B31 looks great. If I ever redo Crows Nest, and have the courage, I want to widen the flybridge like you did. To me, that's a huge improvement. Nicely done.

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Oct 14th, '22, 16:36

Thanks John,

That's an old photo of my B31. She was a good looking boat for sure but the inside was a basket case. I'm roughly a month behind my planned schedule of Oct. 16 to head south but I hope when she if finished she looks just as good as when she was at the dock.

Regarding widening the Flybridge. Its well worth the time and effort. It certainly could be a wintertime project. I think mine was roughly 3 weeks. That doesn't include final paint.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Oct 18th, '22, 11:38

I like the concept drawings. I look forward to seeing lots of pictures of the build!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 19th, '22, 22:30

Rick

Yes the 31 compared to modern boats had short comings. But Bertram was fine until the Bean Counters got involved. Ending the 31 when they did was a little early for its time.

The 30 was a huge mistake.

They should have updated the design and layout, eliminating the tumble home would have made it easier to build since they wouldn't have needed the two half molds bolted together and who knows, maybe it would still be around.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Oct 20th, '22, 07:24

I have often heard that the split mold was a costly manufacturing process----but in the total cost of manufacturing a boat --I can't see it adding

significant $$$ to make a difference.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Oct 21st, '22, 06:34

I think if they stopped making the 31 for any reason, it would be there was more money to be made on the larger boats. I'm glad they didn't start cutting corners for a larger profit margin and continue to keep building them.

If sales were flat for the 31 with a low profit margin...does cutting the cost of making the boat for higher profit make for better sales or cheapen the brand.
I think if it were me and I wanted to continue making the 31 I'd have looked at the boat's shortcomings and revamped the design to incorporate fixes while holding true to the original. Kind of Blackfin-ish with flare in the bow and a cabin with some warmth and charm, make a bridge at least two people can comfortably sit in. Kind of like the new 31 coming in at 35'. Anyway if revamping, the loss of the tumblehome can be incorporated as a new design and not just a move to save money in production. Newly designed boat can also be sold at a higher price point, I'd think.

Just thoughts from a backseat driver the day after.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 22nd, '22, 08:43

Carl,

You keep making the same mistake over and over.
The boat you described above already exists and it’s called Bertram 28 !
What is it you people you don’t understand, LOL !!

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Oct 22nd, '22, 18:07

Hmmmmmm.
10 months since I was promised pictures of "radical" executed by "ninjas" at some "dojo".

Carry on-
Stephan

Lotzster · Post by **Lotzster** » Oct 22nd, '22, 18:35

I had some down time to spend on the Bert where we did some placements and mockups in addition to more of the fundamental build work.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... allery.jpg
I'm pretty happy with it all. I can make it sexier but I will loose critical space etc... Everything is a compromise.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... allery.jpg
I have spent a lot of time considering a one piece bent glass windshield and side glass. It is of course stupid expensive but money aside, I'm now leaning towards traditional flat glass. As a convertible it would look cool but this will definitely have a good size hardtop and my drawings and references tell me flat facets will look better/meaner more purposeful. I very much want to stick with the heritage of the B31, so while I thought the bent window might be in keeping with the original Bahia Mar fairing it also gets a little Euro/modern looking. I would hate to not get this quite right and this look becomes even harder with a hard top over it. So I've mostly convinced myself to abandon the bent glass and go with the classic nautical looking panel front like my F233 or most others expresss.express.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... 170537.jpg

Lotzster · Post by **Lotzster** » Oct 22nd, '22, 19:48

I figured out posting pictures. There's hope for me yet.

Ironically the shop bays next to mine house a pretty badass classic mustang collection.

These projects take an amazing amount of time and money and are hardly ever worth it as most of you know. So I unfortunately won't be able to get this done like they do on the car TV shows. I will need to continue being real busy with other people's projects and work on this with the spare time and materials i can avail.

We got most of the structure bellow deck done. Stringers and bulkheads are done and glassed in and gelcoated. All the limber holes are fully glassed over water tight, no exposed coring.

Laid the foundation for the extension platform. 8 foot 1 inch Airex sistered to the original stringers poked through the transom and glassed in. I've done a few of these extensions now. It's better in every way than beefing up a transom and bolting on some aluminum box.(which I've also done a bunch of times)

As you might be able to see, I am repurpising as much of the old boat as I can. Especially the radiuses and compound fairings. This will help with making it look like a forgotten original rather than a Frankensteined butcher build. I have some good ideas for the helm and cockpit too when we get that far.
I will continue to update. Sorry in advance that it won't go faster.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Oct 23rd, '22, 06:47

Good things come in time.

The extensions are ingenious! I think it will make for a much cleaner look and strong as hell. Nice

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Oct 23rd, '22, 08:08

Nice look.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Oct 23rd, '22, 13:26

Yannis-

The 28 has everything I don’t want in a boat, tight cockpit with obstacles, tight helm, tight cabin, tight engine space…it does kinda look nice.

From a distance.

Lol, kidding Yannis. The 28 is a nice boat, but not really for me and how I want to use a boat most of the time. If it’s what I had without a choice I’d make it work, but be on the lookout for something else.

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Oct 23rd, '22, 13:43

Can you post a couple of pics on how you tied in the stringer extensions?

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 23rd, '22, 20:20

HMM a Bertram 28. Was there not someone on here that used to call that a Hyena Boat. LOL

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Oct 24th, '22, 16:44

Lotzster,

I don't know how to post a pic, but give me your email and I'll send you the pic of a 1963 racing B-31 that rewminds me of your build. I like the lines of your radical 31.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Oct 24th, '22, 17:16

Tommy Sopwith's 1963 31 Bertram

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspire ... trials.jpg

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Oct 24th, '22, 17:26

Thanks Craig, that's the one!

Lotzster · Post by **Lotzster** » Oct 24th, '22, 17:54

Yes for sure guys. I very much want to give it that old original race boat vibe. I have prowled the internet and looked at every picture of the old race boats. Most think of them as fishing boats but as you guys know it came to be from racing.

Here's one shot I've always liked. Real similar to the one you guys point out.

Another rendering of my vision for it.

I hope to fish it with the boys, cruise it with the family and cover ground in the slop comfortably and safely.

Lotzster · Post by **Lotzster** » Oct 24th, '22, 18:34

1 inch Airex sistered to the original stringers poked through the transom.

Making lines in space to mockup to. Again pretty happy with where I'm at with it. I would like to lower the trunk to sexy it up more but I loose standing head room down below. In my twenties and thirties I would have said nevermind standing headroom it must get the look. But in my forties I am starting to value different things. The family very much enjoys the boating experience and I want to nuture that. More in the way of accommodations was the request of the wife and kids.

My dad and daughter on the F233. I added the hard top a couple seasons ago. Full carbon with a clear twill underside. looks cool, will most likely do the same for the B31. The top weighs 30 pounds and the supports are also box carbon tube. No hardware.

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Oct 25th, '22, 13:38

Looks cool. Keep the progress pics coming.