Thoughts about a single 250hp outboard on B25?

[ktm_2000]

Hi All,

I have had a 300hp suzuki on order since last Feb, the dealer can't give me any info what so ever and I really don't want to miss another season.

I have found a person selling a 250 yammie with 900hrs on it and am thinking about pulling the trigger as I should be able to keep that motor running for a few years and hopefully by the time I need to replace it, there are no supply chain issues?

Boat wise... I had 2x135hp in the past and for the most part the boat did everything that I wanted, Plenty of power and pretty good fuel economy. I was under propped as I could hit in excess of 5k rpm on motors rated for max of 4800rpm.

When I renovated my boat, I took out a lot of weight, probably 700-800lbs, I did however put in a fairly large fuel tank which could take up a lot of that weight. Even with a full load of fuel, I would probably be 2-300# under my previous weight.

Your thoughts???

[Carl]

Boats are more fun being used than sitting on a trailer waiting for power.


IF you found yourself unhappy with performance AND the original motor became available...could you get a good portion of the money spent on the used motor back?

If you were able to use the boat this season instead of waiting...how much is that worth?

How much usable performance difference is 50hp to you.


For me...If I could get 80-90% of what I wanted Now, this year....that would be my route.

Unless of course, you see things getting better...

[ktm_2000]

I am thinking the same way as you, the boat does nothing for me sitting in the driveway.

Could I use it for 2-3 years and get a few bucks back on a trade? probably

I talked with the guy, he's got a local buyer interested, he says I am 2nd in line. If it is around this weekend I'll take the trip to get it.

[beachbum]

I'd probably go for it to be honest

There's a Superyacht chase boat up for sale in our marina with 2 x yammy 200s that have done over 5000 hours (the vast majority at 4000+ rpm) and still sound like they're new

[Yannis]

What a mess this covid thing...
It’s as if you are on the operating table waiting for a heart transplant and the donor...dissapears!

[Ironworker]

Not sure how you're going to use this boat but I don't think a 250 is enough motor. I'd be patient and get the 300.

[CamB25]

250 should be fine, depending on your attitude towards speed. My 300 G2 makes peak power at 4600 rpm through redline at 6100. I almost never run it up there except for getting on plane quickly. Big, huge prop really helped my boat cruise at slower speeds. You'll likely find that you need to be around 25 knots to "cruise" comfortably with the 250 or the 300 Suzuki. Mine, I can get a slight bit lower without falling off. it's not a horsepower thing, it's a torque/blade area thing (twins might be an advantage here). My 300 G2 will dominate either engine in a torque contest and it swings a 16" blade with enormous blade area. But...it's a 2 stroke dinosaur with lots of torque. I sometimes wish I had two of them back there...under warranty, of course!

Capt'n Bone ran his 25 for years with a clapped out 250 2 stroke. He has a picture of a guy on plane with a 150 hanging off the back of a B25. The 250 4 stroke will work fine and I'm sure it's much less $$ than the new 'Zuke.

My boat started life in 1963 with 2 tiny 4 stroke Volvo I/Os making 110 hp each at the crank. Stayed that way until 1975 when they swapped out for another set of tiny Volvos making a whopping 130 hp at the cranks. Stayed that way until 1990 when the boat was parked.

[Greg]

I've been wrestling with the same supply issue and will likely refurbish my out drives. New engines are tough to find and most of the used engines I've found were being sold by very proud owners.
I found this posting a few years ago talking about the performance found/predicted on prior repowers and conversions. Unfortunately 250 is about the only common repower not listed.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7481&p=71990&hilit=hpdi#p71990


Post by TailhookTom » Aug 4th, '11, 12:48
Jonah was nice enough to pass the following data along to me with respect to repowering a B25 -- if I decide to do it -- I honestly admit, I'm more likely going to be going slow for a long time to keep the headaches and neckaches to a minimum -- so a keelboat might be a better option, for now.

Anyhow, here are his numbers for topend speed in a B25:

Twin 3.0 Alphas - 38mph-42mph
Single Small Block Bravo 3 - 40-44mph
Big Block 7.4liter or 8.1 liter Bravo 3 - 44-52mph
Single 150hp outboard 30mph
Single 225hp outboard 37-43mph
Twin 140hp outboard 42-44mph
Twin 150hp outboards 46mph
Twin 225hp outboards 50-55mph

[Carl]

Anyhow, here are his numbers for topend speed in a B25:

Twin 3.0 Alphas - 38mph-42mph
Single Small Block Bravo 3 - 40-44mph
Big Block 7.4liter or 8.1 liter Bravo 3 - 44-52mph
Single 150hp outboard 30mph
Single 225hp outboard 37-43mph
Twin 140hp outboard 42-44mph
Twin 150hp outboards 46mph
Twin 225hp outboards 50-55mph

No motor 0 mph

[ktm_2000]

quite a while back I had a lobster boat and the previous owner had it setup with a riding sail. It got in the way of casting so I took it down and stored it in my shed (Still there). Maybe I could install it on the roof of my doghouse and use that for power? While I am at it, I also have auxillary power setup of a 2-stroke Johnson 2hp motor I could hang off the back too. With both powering the boat I'm optimistically guessing WOT of 1kt and cruise of .5kt.

I haven't gone sailing in many years but I think it is like riding a bike and I'd figure it out quick.

[Carl]

Richard Bertram was a sailer...

Just add a keel and away you go.

[ktm_2000]

I have sailed on a Concordia yawl - designed by Ray Hunt

[Greg]

Saw this ad this morning.

https://smd.craigslist.org/bpo/d/chesap ... 60673.html

[Greg]

For what its worth...
I just looked back at some messages I exchanged with Capt Bone. In it he said he used an old 225 not a 250 hp engine, so all the better if looking at a 250

[ktm_2000]

Thank you, I emailed the person but I think it is a 25" shaft and I need a 30"

[ktm_2000]

the 250 yammie fell through, the guy sold it to a local person in NJ

the person selling one in MD, it was a 25" shaft

[Bruce]

There is a Suzuki dealer, marine specialties in pompano Beach fla that is supposed to be able to get them I heard 6 months ago. You might call them.

[captbone]

I had a 225hp with low compression on #5 cylinder and still ran great. I fished with 6 guys and still ran good.

The 150hp Mercury was a 4 cylinder 4 stroke on a 25 Express on a bracket and still hit 30mph.

Time is the one thing you can’t buy more of. I would do anything to prevent missing a summer underway.

[Greg]

I saw this on the hull truth, I don't think its close but...


https://www.thehulltruth.com/parts-foru ... df300.html

DF300
2017
149 hrs
warranty until 6/23
includes all rigging, controls, prop, etc

$19,000

[ktm_2000]

thanks,

I've got another lead on a motor closer to home, I am going to check it out saturday morning.

[Dug]

What dealer are you working with? PM me as I know the Suzuki rep for the area and I know a couple of dealers. One in Newport, RI and one in Gardner, MA.

I’ll hook you up with help if I can!

Dug

[ktm_2000]

Dug,

I let you know on Monday, I have an appointment to look at a motor tomorrow morning at 10am in NH, if that works out I will give up on the Suzuki

Matt

[ktm_2000]

I am further along

Today I went to what I thought, was going to be Portsmouth NH but ended up being southern Maine. Any which way the seller had a pair of 2017 Honda 250 HP 30" shaft motors. He advertised one as parts as it ingested water and is siezed and the 2nd as a fully running and operational motor. The motors are stated to have @ 850hrs.

When I got there unfortunately he stated his mechanic was unable to be at the shop and I could not do a full test of the motor but I was able to take the cowls off both motors, check lower unit fluid, etc. The motors will sell with full controls and stainless props. Both motors have some scratches on the cowls but appear to be in generally good condition.

We wrote up a contract and I gave him a deposit on the motors pending a successful startup and good run of the advertised good motor. The plan is to figure out the availability of the mechanic and the seller and my work schedule and hopefully all goes well we can get something worked out schedule wise and get them home.

[Carl]

Glad to hear your progress and hope it works out well.

[Greg]

Yep, good to hear!

[CamB25]

I spoke with the Suzuki guys at the Miami show. I told them I had a friend that has been waiting for an engine for a year...still no date. They said there was manufacturing problem with wire harnesses that is causing a delay, should be shipping soon. Sales booth guys, so I can't vouch for accuracy. I'm sure the engine folks are delivering to their OEMs first and the aftermarket a distant second.

[captbone]

Any updates? I think that will be a good match.

[ktm_2000]

I don't want to get my hopes up but I have a 1/2 day off scheduled for tomorrow to go up and get to see the "good" motor test run and perform a compression test on it. I have a bank check on hand and a u-haul trailer reserved to take the motors home if all goes well.

I talked with the seller tonight and he mentioned that his mechanic brought the motor into the shop this afternoon and hooked it up so we could do the test. He stated that the mechanic test fired the motor and it fired up immediately and was idling well.

I have the worlds worst luck, me writing this is really the curse of all curses. Can the sun shine on the dog's ass tomorrow?

[Carl]

I've been told, "If it weren't for Bad Luck, I'd have no luck at all."

All things must come to an end...even bad luck. I'd like to think I overcome bad luck with persistence, seems your taking the same strategy, taking the hand you're dealt and making it work for you.

I hope the motor exceeds your expectations today.

[ktm_2000]

Well.....

the "good" motor did not exceed my expectations but it is something I think that I can work with

I got there and the one motor was in the shop on a stand and we hooked it up to water, fuel and battery and it fired up immediately. At first no water came out of the pee hole but the mechanic used his compressed air and gave it a quick blast and water started coming out. We ran the motor for 5 min and I was able to rev it and it ran pretty good but it wasn't what I would consider perfect.

we then shut down the motor and removed all the coils and plugs and started doing a compression test. The plugs all had a clean burn pattern on them but it was obvious that they were not all gapped the same, they hadn't been changed in a while, most likely the cause of the idle not being as good it could be. The starboard bank of cylinders were all 175PSI and then I worked my way down the port side 175, 165, 130. Concern stepped in..... We decided to run the motor for another 15 min and retest and put all the plugs and coils back in and the motor started up instantly. In running I put my head up to the motor and could hear a slight tick, so I busted out my old school stethoscope (long screwdriver) and started listening to the cylinder heads and block. I could clearly hear a tick in which seemed to originate on the exhaust valve on the cylinder with the lowest compression. The engine owner listened and understood what I was hearing and my concern - tick and low compression in the same spot.

After 15 min we shut the motor down and pulled the coils and plugs and retested the 1 cylinder with the 130 compression and this time it tested 140-145psi. I talked with the owner and expressed my concerns that the motor would need work and what we negotiated was that I would take 1k off the price with the agreement that I would take the motor home, run ring free / marvel mystery oil and let the motor run a bit more and see if the tick improves and compression comes up, if it does on basic stuff like that I would pay him his original asking price, If I had to do more repairs ( most likely) I would use the 1k less that I paid to do the repairs.

I am pretty positive that the tick was in the head and not in the block. In doing a bit of research, I have a middle ground theory, emphasis theory...... The motor needs valve shim adjustments at regular intervals and it is possible that at 850hrs that it hasn't been done or is currently due for service and needs adjustment. My theory is that the exhaust valve adjustment may have come out of specifications and is creating the slight tick, it is also not fully sealing thus the low compression.

if that doesn't do it, pull the head and have a machine shop go through it, I've pulled heads on several vehicles so it is not out of my skillset. I won't say that re-doing valves is.

any which way, I do have a running motor, it is in my driveway, one way or another, whatever it takes I will be boating this year!!!!!!!!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fLSoHSUPtvApGogK9

[CamB25]

Well, that seems like good news, but another project added to your list. I don't think I've ever heard a Honda engine that didn't "tick". cars, motorcycles.

[ktm_2000]

Projects, who needs more projects??? I run 15+ concurrently at work, many at home, what's one or 2 more?

BTW - the wife did give me the go-ahead if the zuki comes in to pull the trigger on that if I get any hint that I will not be on the water with Honda this year.

The box of goodies, harnesses, shift cables, props, came with a full shop manual from honda, been reading it this morning, mucking with this doesn't seem that ugly, pretty good manual compared to anything I've had in the past.

I need some good 60 degree weather to put the bracket on my boat and have the 5200 for the bolts cure, hopefully I can get this hung on the back soon so I can start messing with it. I'm going to build a vertical engine stand for the 2nd motor and in my "spare" time see what it will take to bring that to life.

at this point all in, I have 2 complete motors and cost wise I am less than 1/2 what I would be paying for 1 new zuki so I think spending effort warranted especially if I could rebuild the 2nd engine run and sell that.

[CamB25]

You sound like me...what's one more project! ha!

Reconsider 5200 for the bolts. PITA to remove when you need to. 4000 works fine

[Rawleigh]

I concur on not using the 5200 there. If you ever have to take it off it might pull off layers of glass. I think we used 4200 on the Scarab when we mounted the Armstrong bracket 20 years ago and there was no evidence of water intrusion last year when the bracket was removed to prep it for the 300 Suzuki's.

On the plus side or the new Suzuki, my buddy tells me they are now true single lever controlled except for when docking with the electronic synchronization. You push the button and use just one lever for everything.

[ktm_2000]

thoughts on how cold could I go with fast cure 4200?
https://doc.jamestowndistributors.com/u ... 0_Rev2.pdf

- Do not apply at temperatures below 40°F (4°C) or on frost covered surfaces. Do not apply at surface
temperatures above 100°F (38°C).


could I heat the area up for an couple hours with a 500watt halogen from the outside and then make a tent with a tarp and use a small electric heater pointing into my transom area?

The lower set of bolts should be around the area which is painted white in the bilge
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6Ra2mUvH4VUkGefh9

Sunday into monday show rain with a high temp of 60, lows of 38, I'm guessing I could hold that area at 70 for a day if tented off

[Rawleigh]

I would think as long as you take the chill out of the substrate you would be OK.

Also they make a Fast Cure version.

https://technicaldatasheets.3m.com/en_US?pif=890

And I was in error about what we used. 5200 bracket to boat, 4200 engine to bracket.

I don't think I would be afraid of 4200 for both applications though.