WINDLASS FOR 31 EXPRESS ?

[jcox1273]

Can anyone recommend a windlass that will fit on my 1962, 31 express? I would like to be able to use the existing stock opening to the anchor line locker. I will not be anchoring in over 50 feet of water with the windlass. Also, I do not want to move the running lights. Thank you in advance for any ideas.
(jcox1273)

[Amberjack]

Keeping the iconic Bertram navigation lights and using the existing deck pipe is technically possible but you will give up much of the benefit of the windlass. You would have to lift the anchor over the side and feed out the chain before dropping the anchor line into the bow chock and letting the windlass take over from there. Then the same process in reverse when raising anchor. The windlass itself is only part of the expense of the project. You will also need to reinforce the deck below the windlass and run power to it. Its a big investment in time, money and effort so you might as well get full benefit from the windlass and let it do all the work.

I did last year and now the nav light fixture is all polished up and decorates my desk, and I'm happy to stand on the foredeck and signal "up" or "down" to my wife at the helm. BTW it took a catastrophic back injury for me to see the light. Sounds as though you're getting ahead of the game.

[Yannis]

Im not familiar with the deck opening on the 31, as Im not sure what material (chain or rode) you’ll use.
A picture would certainly help !

As for the running lights, for the position of which I am familiar, I wonder how can it become possible to keep them...
Last, Im always in favor of a horizontal windlass (that lets the chain drop vertically!! into the locker) as opposed to a vertical one (that feeds the chain horizontally!!), as this latter has the tendency to not take advantage of gravity in its feeding the chain into the locker and sometimes gets blocked on the deck.
As for the material , if you asked me, since you mentioned the 50 foot max depth and given the 6-7 tons of the boat I’d use 4X50=200f. of 8mm chain, or whatever this translates into your system.

PS : The windlass saves your back from having to lift the anchor each and every time you use it. Therefore, I would personally use a pulpit that handles the dropping or lifting as well as storing and securing the anchor, hands free. You can have up/down buttons on the fwd deck as well as on the bridge so you can drop the anchor without help. This, to me, is the second MEGA benefit of the windlass together with saving my back from torture.
The below deck backing plates and overall securing of the windlass and of the pulpit are very straighforward, cost next to nothing and I could explain to you how we do it (you will literally find not one single boat without a windlass in the whole Med) in case you choose to go that path. Good luck!

[Carl]

On the bow of my 31 Express sits a capstan with foot pedal switch.

To deploy anchor- go up front and let out as usual.

To retrieve, go upfront leave line running through bow chuck and wrap around capstan, hit switch and it winches in the line as you keep tension by pulling line off capstan.

Once anchor breaks free...just pull it in, send line down into the anchor locker.


I used once years before I bought the boat.
When I got the boat motor was dead...but I found it was just as easy and faster to have someone pull line while boat slowly motored forward...when directly above, tie it off and anchor broke free then retrieve by hand.

Offshore with lots of chain I use a ball to retrieve.

I rarely anchor when alone...those time it would be nice to have capstan working.
But unless blowing good, the anchor is pretty easy to just pull in by hand.

[mike ohlstein]

In anything more than 15 feet of water, I use a float ball. It couldn't be easier.

[Ironworker]

I'm reviving this old thread because I'd like to install a windlass on my B31. My GF is still able to pull the anchor but I'm thinking about her when she gets a little older.

What brand would you guys recommend. I also want a pulpit.

I've seen a couple of boats (Regulator being one) that has a hidden windlass and pulpit which would be exceptional, If I could find one to work on the B31.

[Tony Meola]

Good for you that you have a built in Anchor Winch. Be nice to her.

My wife usually runs the boat when I pull the anchor. That does get a little tough since she has not quite mastered following the line, but we usually Anchor in shallow water so it works right now.

I have also seen the hidden winch set up, but I don't think it will work on our 31 as they currently are configured. The ones I have seen wrap the line on a drum so I think the amount of line they hold is limited.

If you and I are talking about the same set up, it would require reinforcing the bow area and then building a shelf for the unit to sit on. Probably would need to steal some room from the V berth.

If you find one that works would love to hear about it.

[Yannis]

In the 28 there is simply no room for a recessed windlass, I doubt there’s room in the 31 either.
Also, if you use chain, it has the tendency to form a heap inside the locker that takes up most if not all the locker height.
Taking up room from the cabin in favor of the chain locker is too complicated as you would have to move the bulkhead...

[Ironworker]

I think you guys are right about the hidden windlass. I need to take a look at one first hand but its probably just a wish.

I'm going back to the surface mount idea. Horizontal or Vertical? What brand? I'm never going to anchor in more than 100' of water.

[Tony Meola]

There was a member on here a while back that had an idea for a design of flip out pulpit, that would allow you to keep the bow chock in place. I thought he was talking with Doug on how to make them, but heard no more.

Sounded like an interesting idea, since the bow chock is the classic 31 look.

If you come up with anything non standard that works let us know.

[Yannis]

Tony,

Next to me there is another 28, a bahia, which features the same bow chock.
It appears that Bertram were installing it to more models except the 31.

On another note, I had an ear problem and went to see a doctor two days ago. As we were speaking, we started talking about summer vacations and I asked, after he had said that he owned a boat, ” ...do,you,travel a lot with your RIB?”
He replied, I don't have a rib, I have a Bertram 31!
Small world.

[Amberjack]

Rick--I looked at all the options you mentioned including belowdeck windlass as well as a bow mounted reel but in the end decided to go with a very conventional set up. I've been happy.

Amberjack's ground tackle set up includes: Lewmar 1000 windlass, SS bow roller (looks like a small pulpit to me) and a Fortress anchor. The Fortress anchor seems counterintuitive as opposed to a plow anchor but the Rocna anchor I tried didn't seat as well against the roller whereas the Fortress snugged right in. Both are highly rated for mud and sand which is common where we anchor.

The Lewmar windlass is very standard but works well and was cost effective. We added a little build out behind the stem to support the aft end of the roller but there was plenty of heft under the deck and we just added backing plates at the points of greatest stress. The Bertram bow chock had to go. Running power to the windlass was probably the hardest part.

View from the underside


This is Yannis' pile of chain, in my case 90' sitting on top of 250' of 5/8" line


The windlass in place. We left the chain pipe to use for an emergency second anchor. This also gives a good view of the build up for the bow roller.


View of the bow roller. The anchor is snubbed off to the chock during winter storage and the chain slacked to take the load off the windlass bearings. When underway the chain is taken up tight and the anchor stock sits level in the roller assembly.

[Yannis]

Doug,

That’s how we do it too. I mean the windlass positioning, the distances, the backing plates and all that!
Except we don’t carry any rode, just chain, lots of it.
You had me wondering for a while, how come your windlass can have 8 bolts, but then I realized those were for the deck cleats...
I think your chain looks like being 6mm, for our size boats we use 8mm, hence the heap!

During running we secure the anchor with strong rope on a cleat or on the rode capstan (if your windlass has one).
We tie the anchor directly from its eye, NOT the U shackle, as this latter may untie or break, don't ask me how I know...

Also, during mooring at anchor we clip this special shackle-like stainless thingy onto the anchor chain, a meter or so beyond/outboard the anchor roller and pull, so as to create a slack that eases tension on the windlass bearings.

We don’t ever drop two anchors simultaneously as it can become very dangerous (spaghetti), UNLESS we can secure our stern ashore.

PS: I have exactly the same aluminum anchor as a second one, outrageously effective on sand or mud.

[Ironworker]

Doug,

Many thanks for the information and the photos. Your system looks both simple and efficient.

We anchor a fair amount in shallow water just to snorkel for conch and maybe shoot a fish or two. Your system would be perfect.

A question about the bow roller. Do you have a model or link for this. I'm assuming it does not come with the Lewmar 1000.

I'm good with the Fortress Anchors. Thats generally the anchors that I use.

[Tony Meola]

Rick

I saw an add in a magazine today for the drum winch that can be mounted above or below deck. I would find the drum to out of place exposed on the bow.

Yannis

You should have been a good patient and referred the Doc to our little Sandbox.

[Amberjack]

Yannis- it is 5/16” = 7.93 mm chain and it does pile,

Tony- I was in love with the foredeck reel system, very much a commercial boat rig but my wife and deck boss nixed the idea.

Rick- I’ll have to crawl around the bow roller to see if it has a brand imprint. We looked at the Lewmar bow roller but it was flimsy. This one is solid but I can’t remember the manufacturer offhand.

[Tony Meola]

Has anyone tired one of these?

https://www.goodwindlass.com/

They are made in NJ and some people swear by them.

[HotSpot]

Here's an example of an offset roller/pulpit configuration. It's a compromise to retain the original Bertram bow cleat. Raising the cleat makes room for the roller, and allows the nav lights to be visible. The winch type windlass keeps the anchor locker tidy. However there's a limit of about 120' of 3/8 twisted line" on the spool.

[Yannis]

Hotspot,

I'm not a fan of offset anchors. There is the issue that the boat will always expose one side to the wind when the anchor is used.
Also, if the anchor bites a rock, it will exert an extra sideways force on the roller and might either bend it or jump over.

However, if the bow chock is imperative to keep, why not construct a teak pulpit and install it on top at the tip, in front of the anchor roller.

[Amberjack]

A question about the bow roller. Do you have a model or link for this. I'm assuming it does not come with the Lewmar 1000.

Rick--I believe it is a Windline Bruce SS Bow Roller, medium. We bolted both the Lewmar and the Bruce to a workbench and fit the anchor into each. The Fortress fit the Bruce perfectly and it was far sturdier than the Lewmar.

[Ironworker]

Rick--I believe it is a Windline Bruce SS Bow Roller, medium. We bolted both the Lewmar and the Bruce to a workbench and fit the anchor into each. The Fortress fit the Bruce perfectly and it was far sturdier than the Lewmar.

Many thanks Doug!

[Ironworker]

Rick

I saw an add in a magazine today for the drum winch that can be mounted above or below deck. I would find the drum to out of place exposed on the bow.

Yannis

You should have been a good patient and referred the Doc to our little Sandbox.

Yannis,

Are you familiar with Dr. Bishop? I think he spent some time on the forum before I acquired his boat. Its parked in front of his house right now.

[Yannis]

Rick,

No Im not. The doc I referred to is here in Athens, Dr Bishop is probably in the US! I don't remember him here, unless he uses a different name or the boat name, which Im unfortunately not familiar with.

[Ironworker]

Has anyone tired one of these?

https://www.goodwindlass.com/

They are made in NJ and some people swear by them.

Tony,

Interesting windless. They aren't as attractive but look to be bullet proof. I'm going to do a little more investigation on them.

I'm currently looking at the following in addition to the Good Windlass

Lewmar and Maxwell RC8-6

[Tony Meola]

Rick

They actually get very good reviews. I was contemplating one, but just not ready to give up the front bow chock.

I thought the same thing about the look of them. A little industrial.

They are not far from where I keep the boat. I have been told, if one ever dies on you, they are really good in getting it back up and running, no matter how old it is.

[Ironworker]

I'm going to give them a call and get some more info. Bulletproof is what I need.

My mind hates to give up the Bertram chock but my back says let it go and get the windlass!

[Yannis]

Rick,

Follow your back.
And make a nice lamp at home with the chock.

[Tony Meola]

Rick,

Follow your back.
And make a nice lamp at home with the chock.

A lamp. That is Heresy.

[DanielM]

Rick you could sell the chock to me. I could put it on my Chris Craft and fool my Chris Craft friends. Lol.

[Ironworker]

Daniel,

That gives me an idea! My friend that gave me the B31 is giving me a B20. Heck I could install it on the B20!

[Ironworker]

OK, I've bought my windlass a Lewmar V1 which can accommodate 5/16" chain. I had several on my short list but I got a good deal and figured parts would be easy to come by.

Now I need to decide on the which anchor to buy before I buy the bow roller.

If it was going to be a stowaway anchor it would be a dansforth but since this anchor is going to live in the roller, Which anchor would you guys recommend? I'm going to be anchoring in sand and coral/rocks.

[Yannis]

Rick,

A steel danforth, a real one, should be a good choice.
Certainly not a bruce, as it is sometimes impossible to undo from rocks.
I have a delta and am very happy with it, good hold on almost every type of bottom.
I also have an aluminum spare, but I wouldn't recommend it as a first anchor, because, although it is perfect in sand and silt, it may suffer in a rocky environment and it’s too expensive to ruin it.

Good choice of chain diameter.
I have some reservations on the lewmar, not because it’s a lewmar, to the contrary.
It's rather because it is a vertical windlass, which in my opinion has the tendency to jam.
Vertical windlasses that pull horizontally (!) cannot take advantage of gravity, I wouldn't recommend them if you boat single handed, but if there’s always someone ready to go to the bow and do the necessary back and forths and feed the chain into the hole, then its OK !
Make sure you install control buttons both at the bow and the fb.
Good luck.

[Ironworker]

Dansforth has always been my go to anchor but I'm open to improvement. Most of our anchoring is going to be in relatively shallow water 60' or less.