2021 Cummins options

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 3rd, '21, 17:22

At this point I’m just riding out my good running 454s but the next big issue I am going to convert the boat. It’s time.

So I know 220s are an option and 330 or the QSB. But nobody seems to be doing the 270s anymore. Are they not available or just the same price as the 330s?

The 270s seem ideal with a 24kt cruise it just seems right but I’m not sure if it’s a real option anymore.

EarleyBird · Post by **EarleyBird** » Feb 3rd, '21, 18:05

Peter, hopefully I can answer your question fairly accurately. I have inquired about the Cummins 6 BTA 5.9 270 hp which I presently have in my 31 which have over 5,000hrs. I was in touch, electronically with the East Coast Marine Sales Representative. They are not being built brand new anymore. You can still purchase that same motor, they say it is reconditioned and comes with a 2 year/2,000 hr. Warranty. Parts will always??? be available so I’m told. Reason for the ReCon’s I’m told is Emissions. With our new President and others who might have a Global Warming agenda they may become unavailable. Should that become reality, I will by a set of ReCons. They fit perfectly in my 31 at the time of installation which previously I had 3 sets of 454,s, with minor alterations. In my opinion, and this should raise a few eyebrows, is the perfect motor for a 31, which no matter how hard you might try ya can’t hurt em’! EarleyBird

.

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Feb 3rd, '21, 18:47

I'd be perfectly happy with a set of "old school" mechanical diesels.

BTW, did you get a price on the RECONs 270HP Cummins?

EarleyBird · Post by **EarleyBird** » Feb 3rd, '21, 20:41

I did, but don’t believe it would be proper to share that quote.
Richard Sutton
Marine Territory Manager. East
Cummins Sales and Service
Direct 410-762-1419

Good Luck should you go with Cummins. Like I said before, my 31 has over 5,000 trouble free hours, and Lord knows if I haven’t broke em’ you’d have to run them for a WHILE without oil and coolant. EarleyBird

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 3rd, '21, 21:56

I am running the 270's also. I do know the price has jumped since I put mine in and that was in 2009. They have jumped up in price such that it becomes cheaper to purchase one of the newer recon QSB's.

Doesn't mean that the QSB is not the right engine for the 31. I believe Jimmy G put the 370 QSB's in his, new not recons. That was probably 5 years ago. If I remember right I was told that they can be set so that you can idle at a slower speed so you aren't going 10MPH at idle, without impacting the ability to use the full torque of the engine when running.

Of course the issue everyone has been afraid of the what if I am 100 miles offshore and they will not start. What next. We all feel better knowing with the Mechanical engines we can usually figure out a way to get them up and running unless a fuel pump is shot, yet for some, changing a fuel pump offshore is not an issue. But with a computerized engine, where do you start in trying to figure out what is wrong.

Given there track record so far, not sure if there is anything to really worry about.

Reach out to Ray Belanger, he put rebuilt 270's in his boat and I know he is really happy with them.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 4th, '21, 14:51

I don't think you can go wrong with any one of them.

If price was not an issue I'd have gone with 270's as I think they are a great compromise between just enough hp (220's) and a bit much hp (330's).

saburke17 · Post by **saburke17** » Feb 4th, '21, 19:52

2020 price on Brand spanking new QSB Slimline 350hp was 26k and change. They are cheaper than the Recon's

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 4th, '21, 20:17

Carl wrote: ↑Feb 4th, '21, 14:51 I don't think you can go wrong with any one of them.

If price was not an issue I'd have gone with 270's as I think they are a great compromise between just enough hp (220's) and a bit much hp (330's).

That was precisely my thought, price and maintenance is certainly an issue. It seems the price of the 270s have gone up enough that it is essentially 220 or QSB. I have concerns with idle speeds with the 330s. I also have concerns not running at 22-24 kts when I can with the 220s. And I have a problem with the price and complexity of the QSB.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 4th, '21, 22:06

Peter

Do not worrying about the idle on the higher HP QSB's. They can detune them at idle through the computer.

11 years ago, a pair of 270's with Transmission were around 45 to 48 thousand.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 5th, '21, 07:42

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Feb 4th, '21, 22:06 Peter

Do not worrying about the idle on the higher HP QSB's. They can detune them at idle through the computer.

11 years ago, a pair of 270's with Transmission were around 45 to 48 thousand.

Yes that’s why I have concerns with the 6bta 330s.

When I look at a new rudder shelf, rudders, deck supports, exhaust engine bed, struts and backing pads, shafts, transmissions. The QSB might put it over the top and I have to deal with the lower cruise of the 220s.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 5th, '21, 08:38

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Feb 4th, '21, 22:06 Peter

Do not worrying about the idle on the higher HP QSB's. They can detune them at idle through the computer.

11 years ago, a pair of 270's with Transmission were around 45 to 48 thousand.

Tony- that depends if going for the QSB's with computer or "rebuilt" mechanical 330's. If mechanical your kinda stuck with idle in and about where it is set...BUT for fishing and No Wake Zones a trolling valve would work. Trolling valve is not going to help you docking.

The other thing to keep in mind...just because you have 330hp does not mean you have to set it up like you have 330 hp.

Meaning you can run wheels pitched for the 270's. You would get the same performance as the 270's except the motor will just be loafing along. -AND/OR- keep the pitch down like the 270's but add lots of cup and rake to wheels. With the wheel spinning slow around dock, fishing that cup and rake has little effect...but start cruising and its like putting boat in high gear giving you the slow speed of 270's and more speed at cruise.

The 220's...if your set on cruising 24 knots, I think you really have to rule them out Peter. That is if you expect to be happy down the road...I think even if you got 22 knots from them you'd be itching for 24. That's just not going to happen.

RTO's was my only option. There are those with 270's looking to pull for more speed. Down side of buying those motors is they wanted more speed so you know where they most likely kept the throttles...

Good luck on your search, need any help give a shout.
If you want to take another ride when boats exhaust restriction is corrected in the spring, just say the word.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 5th, '21, 11:15

Carl,

Dug with Yanmar 4 LHA’s (just like mine I believe, unless they are the STE’s and not the STP’s, which I’m not sure what difference it makes) runs a bit faster than me and also a bit more economical, at least this is what I remember.
If I cruise easy at 24 knots, @ 60 liters per hour, what else does one need?

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 5th, '21, 14:51

Yannis, there are definetly other power options aside from Cummins. But Cummins was the brand Peter seems to have settled on...or at least considering the most.

I would not have turned my nose up on a pair of Yanmars had a deal presented itself.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 5th, '21, 18:05

Carl, I appreciate your help already. Your right I want the simplicity and cost of the 220s at 24 knots. I really want to stick with reman or new not RTOs and I don’t think you can get your hands on the 240 yanmars, I wouldn’t rule them out. My understanding is they’re not available.

I am actually very happy with my 454s. I can hit 24kts at 3000 RPMs when I’m crossing the bay or when the ocean is flat. But I’ll often run at 17 kts when I am enjoying being out. When I’m out in the ocean in less then perfect conditions I let comfort dictate my speed. The only real issue I have is I can’t run 50 miles one way and even if I added saddles I have potential reliability issues and the idea of having to spend good money after bad.

I think I could live with 220s it’s just that the nose drops and the boat really gets up between 21&24. And this is a forever decision.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 5th, '21, 19:04

I have to ask, are you getting rated WOT rpm'. 24 knots at 3k sounds wrong with 454''s unless worked well.

Your in a good position where you can use boat and take time to decide.

220's and a 24 knot cruise I just do not see happening in our 31's. Maybe pull a ton of weight out...agh who are we kidding 220's are not going to give you a 24 knot boat unless you really push those motors. Diesels may be great, but pushing them cuts their life short and you'll be back to where you are. Wanna go faster, gotta go up in sustainable hp.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 5th, '21, 19:33

i have posted this before and don't have to many good years ahead of me. i have thousands of shares of CMI, like i told you to do years ago while at $58.00 now at $229.00 a total domination of small diesels marine motors. last time i am going to post this Cummins Recons are not rebuilt engines!!!!!! and never will be due to the warrantee . they take the Bosch 1500 fuel pump and run it thru the assembly line twice so it qualifies as rebuilt however there are restrictions like cannot be use in new boat installations and do not meet EPA. tier 4 guidelines. my own personnel 330 hp recons were purchased in april 2006 with engine dynamometer results of each engine and signed by technician and shop supervisor. the block date is november 2005 ------get the picture??? they are the latest and greatest of mechanical storm blocks. impossible to be rebuilt.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 5th, '21, 21:30

Bob

I think for Peter it is the pricing. Not sure what the pricing on the BTA 330's vs a QSB Engine. I have to believe at this point QSB is becoming the dominating factor in Recons.

The other factor is service. The beauty of the 270's is that the After Cooler is fresh water cooled, which cuts down on maintenance. I believe the sea water cooled turbos have to be taken apart and cleaned every two to 3 years.

But that is a fact of life with a lot of the higher HP Diesels.

EarleyBird · Post by **EarleyBird** » Feb 6th, '21, 04:30

Amen Bob! ...and Tony mine still have the original Turbos and like I’ve repeated over 5,000 hours. Blade to turbo housing clearance is becoming a tad more than new. All hoses and heat exchangers have been renewed. I’m told as of last week when CB Marine (Sean) and I renewed P&S salt water pumps slamming the throttles on the fiberglass she won’t burn rubber. Take a second or two to get up at of the hole....but I never do it anyway. FYI I turn 1 1/2” Aquamet 22 shafts, 83 1/4” to EOT. For the fourth year now DQX 20x22 4 blade with a medium cup. At 2300 fully loaded 220 gallons, 400# of ice, 3-4 guys She does an honest 24. With the other 4 blade Michigan wheels she was a knot or more slower from 2000 rpm and up. (23plus@2300) Take 100 gallons out of her, push her up to almost 2400 she’ll occasionally touch 27, on a FLAT calm day. How often in 30 feet do you get those???488 hours on her last year, happened twice. Listen to Bob. EarleyBird

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 6th, '21, 06:50

bob lico wrote: ↑Feb 5th, '21, 19:33 i have posted this before and don't have to many good years ahead of me. i have thousands of shares of CMI, like i told you to do years ago while at $58.00 now at $229.00 a total domination of small diesels marine motors. last time i am going to post this Cummins Recons are not rebuilt engines!!!!!! and never will be due to the warrantee . they take the Bosch 1500 fuel pump and run it thru the assembly line twice so it qualifies as rebuilt however there are restrictions like cannot be use in new boat installations and do not meet EPA. tier 4 guidelines. my own personnel 330 hp recons were purchased in april 2006 with engine dynamometer results of each engine and signed by technician and shop supervisor. the block date is november 2005 ------get the picture??? they are the latest and greatest of mechanical storm blocks. impossible to be rebuilt.

Bob I get it and I’m listening. I’m totally onboard with the remans. When I look at 220, 270 and 330; the 270s seem to be the Goldilocks engine. When weighing out cruise speed vs idle speed. What I’m trying to understand is why more folks aren’t repowering with them. Is it that they’re not available or are folks just choosing the 330s because of price?

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Feb 6th, '21, 08:36

Peter----understand you have the smaller tank----just going to the larger tank may resolve a lot of your problems----you won't be able to run the 100 square but 50 miles will not be an issue.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 6th, '21, 13:38

peter we had 370hp recons in the yard with a block date code 1 month earlier than the recon sale date!!!!! sooooo they sold new mechanical 370hp put 20,000 hours on them in a month than rebuilt them and sold them as recondition-----------Hoodwink the gorvernment EPA. ----i love it. seriously i mention being a stock holder in Cummins what that does is allow you to go thru a different channel for information that they do not publish.starting 2021 every single public diesel must be cummins ( basically they have all the patents . no more public buses taking off with black smoke out of the stack. they all will run on LPG cummins like NYC,nassau and suffolk counties NY.moving right along 370hp recon least expensive,330 hp less than a thousand more an 270 hp the most expensive .i have no idea why but on the subject QSB recons really are recondition storm blocks with all new components or you pay core charge.moving right along if your not one of those crazy people who must build on the racers edge you could easily install a 330 hp with 20" 4 blade no cup and she will drive like a dream around the docks and troll but expect cruising to be 23-24 knots.230 gallon tank can take you to the end of the earth!!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 6th, '21, 15:01

Thanks Bob

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 6th, '21, 17:32

A couple words on maintaince and service after my first season with them.

I was impressed with the motors design. I have had to work on some other motors that need special tools, other it was very awkward to get at basic items. Want to pull the turbo on a 3208 only four bolts...but one was under another large part that had to come off, but several items where connected to that...what a headache. All because the guy broke a bolt trying to stop an exhaust leak...had a friend try to drill out the bolt...but such an awkward tight spot he broke the drill bit in there. Nothing a dermal and an hour alone couldn't fix....getting off the subject.

The few things I needed to address I was putting off as I imagined it would be a project that led to another.
Nope, not the case.

Change impeller- - 2 hole clamps, remove hoses, 2 bolts and wiggle out the pump. Change impeller and installation was just as easy.

Rod heat exchanger- - unbolt endcovers and rod.

Remove heat exchanger- - couple of hose clamps, wiggle hoses off, unbolt 4 bolts and it's off.

Thermostat - - unplug alternator, unbolt the bracket and thermostat is sitting right there. Swap and assemble...all standard tools with easy access.

It may sound like a ramble...but my point is the Cummins motors seem to be designed for easy service; so whether you do it yourself or hire someone to service them, it's is a fairly quick and painless job. That means it's not an over the top expensive job like with some other brands. Knowing that now, my aversion to the 270 and 330 is a bit less.

With time you get to research and think with no pressure

neil · Post by **neil** » Feb 6th, '21, 18:17

Cummings 270 you will never look back

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 6th, '21, 20:27

cummins did not screw the other companies thay purchase the small company that invented the injectors that work for LNG on a conventional diesel engine and the rest is history. more important than DIY mechanics that do our own diesel repair and maintenance the main key here is due to world wide total dominance (stock holders quarterlies list Yanmar as N/C non competitive ) you can find cummins parts in any town, city in the USA. mainly due to trucks but the same dealers can have every marine 6BTA-M3 part in 24 hours.every town in the USA at about i/3 the price of Yanmar or volvo except turbo that would be 80% less. and fuel injection pump 50% less .a still gear system driving oil pump, fuel injection pump, and raw water pump not a rubber band!!!! absurd

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 6th, '21, 21:16

Peter

I hate to say this, but after all that has been said, the only way of knowing is contact a Cummins dealer and sit down and have a conversation. I priced out Yanmars and Cummins. Cummins I was all in (not including install) for 48, Yanmar, I was given numbers of 58. Yanmar was hitting me an extra 5 grand an engine for gauges.

When I did mine the Diesel shop I used was not yet a Yanmar dealer. They know are. My choices of Yanmar shops at that time were limited. The local Yanmar shop at the time had a bad reputation, and actually, when I talked to Mack Boring and asked recommendations in my area, they just said watch them closely, and how about running the boat an hour up the coast and seeing someone else.

But the 10,000 difference made my mind up.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 6th, '21, 23:02

i was on the other side of the coin. all cummins dealers have a geographical area so our marina had a dealer on both sides (east and west) we were a yamaha dealer on 69 acres so he ask us if we could walk and chew gum at the same time!!!! we answer yes and we had a Yanmar dealership no other qualifications .no problem until we put one that exploded in the shop and broke it down (32 Luhrs) OMG ---------a exact replica of a 1955 292 cubic inch chevy 6 cylinder.definitely wanted a piece of the action the boss smiles i just wanted to ask one question when you saw the fan belt in the front did you get a tweak in your as- h-le! that you been haded

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 7th, '21, 07:19

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Feb 6th, '21, 21:16 Peter

I hate to say this, but after all that has been said, the only way of knowing is contact a Cummins dealer and sit down and have a conversation. I priced out Yanmars and Cummins. Cummins I was all in (not including install) for 48, Yanmar, I was given numbers of 58. Yanmar was hitting me an extra 5 grand an engine for gauges.

When I did mine the Diesel shop I used was not yet a Yanmar dealer. They know are. My choices of Yanmar shops at that time were limited. The local Yanmar shop at the time had a bad reputation, and actually, when I talked to Mack Boring and asked recommendations in my area, they just said watch them closely, and how about running the boat an hour up the coast and seeing someone else.

But the 10,000 difference made my mind up.

Tony I was in touch with the local place I’d likely have do a repower about a year and a half ago, maybe two. I will ring them up and have a deeper conversation soon. At the time the 220s were about 18k plus 5k for gears. The QSB 330s were 26k each gears were almost double what they’d be for the 220s. I forget all the details but the 270s were not much cheaper then the 6BTA 330s, which wasn’t a huge amount less then the QSBs.

After I get into new rudder self, rudders, shafts, struts, reinforcing the backing, exhaust, engine beds and possibly a possibly new fuel tank and deck supports. As my wallet shakes in fear I think I may get more comfortable with a 21kt cruise.

Being a mostly original ‘69 I think when the deck comes up and the old stuff comes out it’s all going to have to go.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 7th, '21, 21:37

Peter

When I pulled mine, I had to rebuild the Steering, rudder shelf, bulkhead behind engines and of course wiring and the what the hell factor. I think the issue with the cost of the 270's is that they are getting scarce and in demand. So the price is way up on them.

I was talked out of the 315/330's by the dealer. His theory was that why waste the money for a couple of extra knots, plus the increased maintenance. But then in 2008 there was a big price difference between the two engines. He said if we were in Florida, and you used the boat all year go with the 330's but otherwise use the 270's.

I am happy with the 270's. Performance is good, she rides right in that sweet spot.

Unfortunately today, the choices have changed, so unless you can get a real good pair of running take outs you will need to go up in size if you can afford it. If you are keeping the boat, then it will all work out. If you plan on moving on in 5 years then keep the gassers.

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Feb 8th, '21, 10:26

I currently have a couple of old Volvo TAMD 60B's (220 hp). The refit before I got the boat included a new 6" Exhaust, a new 220 gallon fuel tank. The boat already had 1.5" shafts and I've had the props refinished.

So my question is What is a ballpark number to drop in a couple of Cummin remans/Overhauls in my B31 based on your experience?

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 8th, '21, 20:00

Peter-

In my mind I'd have a tough time justifying spending so much for 220's when in the scheme of things it's not that much more for 270's or 330's. If buying new your not having to deal with prior owners lack of maintenance so you should have thousands of hours trouble free...provided you do your maintenance which you seem very good at having done.

Yes it's a big dollar jump from 220' to ....

But the jump percentage drops considerably when you add in the cost of your install wish list.

To spend so much and cruise at 20 knots...(yes I'm derating you to 20) would you be happy? What are your benefits for spending what you will be spending? I doubt you'd see your money in resale. Your not going to see a return on fuel savings for... Diesel cost more and you'll only be saving 1/3 or so. Your used to cruising 24 knots...

Me, I've been cruising 17knots for years 210's bring me up to 20 knots...
I save a few bucks in fuel

...and for me the longevity is where they shine.
Reliability I always had.

I'm just gonna toss it all at you before you decide. After you lay out money it's kinda too late....

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Feb 8th, '21, 20:24

my 210s after a boat diet and some prop play cruise at 23kts at 2200 rpm 25 at 2400 its doable for sure

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 8th, '21, 21:36

Tom

A Boat Diet. Now that is funny.

IronWorker. The cost for you, depending on the shape of everything under your deck would be substantially less that it would be for someone that has to upgrade everything.

If Everything under the deck is in good shape, and you are just dropping in engines, transmissions and guages, going Cummins, I will take a wild guess and say you might be able to skirt for $70,000. You do your own labor, then the number changes again.

That assumes the Engine beds are the right height and in good shape.

Hopefully someone who has a good number on a 330 Cummins with Transmissions will jump in and correct me.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 8th, '21, 23:05

my opinion is far fetch by your standards tony but i will throw it out there for those of you whom always do your own thing. number one no marine mechanic/dealer/technician is allow on or near the boat, ever. i do all my own work no matter what it is. so i bought my 330hp cummins for the equivalent of $forty two thousand with no gauges i did my own thing Flow Scan a thousand times better than OEM. especially when your limited to area like a 31 Bertram bridge. i have scale down WOT over the years to raise cruise speed and idle speed around docks. my props are radical that i designed thru trial and error after shop closing in back of prop shop.i cruise at 30 knots but that's not the best fuel economy witch is 27 knots . WOT is a meaningless number but she runs at 34 knots and sucks fuel at that speed, just plain stupid on a 72 mile run offshore. the Atlantic ocean only allows 25 to 27 knot maximum. not a opinion i am a professional APBA, driver you should never exceed 28 knots.parmanent spinal cord damage no joke------think

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 9th, '21, 07:30

bob lico wrote: ↑Feb 8th, '21, 23:05 i cruise at 30 knots

the Atlantic ocean only allows 25 to 27 knot maximum. not a opinion i am a professional APBA, driver you should never exceed 28 knots.parmanent spinal cord damage no joke------think

On one hand I get your meaning, the other hand says What?

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 9th, '21, 07:45

1962 31 wrote: ↑Feb 8th, '21, 20:24 my 210s after a boat diet and some prop play cruise at 23kts at 2200 rpm 25 at 2400 its doable for sure

Sounds like a good diet. After I get the exhaust straightened out, I can push the throttles up a bit more to start working on props.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 9th, '21, 09:55

Carl,

When I mentioned my Yanmars before, it was NOT, as you assumed, to offer an alternative to Pete; I knew he was set on Cummins.
I mentioned them because of the very similar horsepower to your own 220’s.
In other words, if I can cruise with 240 hp at 24 knots and Dug, probably with the US rated at 230, at least as fast, and perhaps more economical, which I also mentioned, then YOU should not be too far away from these speeds, considering additionally that the express should be lighter than the FB.
And yes, perhaps you should put the lady on some keto diet, start from the non essentials like oil and coolant but god forbid, do not touch the beer!

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Feb 9th, '21, 10:49

Tony, Bob and others thanks for the info.

I've already spent the money on a set of Glenndinning engine controls which I can use for the new engines when I install them. BTW, I highly recommend them. They were an easy install which I did myself. I've also replaced the rudder board and installed the oversized rudders along with all new hydraulic hoses.

Now I just need to find a deal on some engines.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Feb 9th, '21, 11:18

1962 31 wrote: ↑Feb 8th, '21, 20:24 my 210s after a boat diet and some prop play cruise at 23kts at 2200 rpm 25 at 2400 its doable for sure

Great numbers. Crows Nest has 300 hp DDs 8.2s with 5" exhaust and 1 3/8" A22 shafts (yeah, I know. She came that way and has been like that for more than 20 years). The 210/220 cummins sound great to me. I'd like a 22 knt cruise minimum and I could keep the exhaust, shafts, stuffing boxes, raw water thru hulls, strainers, etc. Start adding up everything and the numbers get big in a hurry. When the time comes, Ill see if I can get away with using the existing stuff with the Cummins 250/270s.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 9th, '21, 13:09

carl what i am saying is you cannot cruise more than 28 to 30 knots in the Alantic Ocean
how ever there are times when the ocean appears to be calm but actually that is huge ground swells so you increase speed to 36 or so. great for the first 7 gentle waves and than the boat flys into the air (like going down a ski jump) and you hear the props singing and the next step the bow comes crashing down and you eat the dashboard if your lucky but you could also go thru that open windshield off the top of the bridge if you are standing.i mention APBA driver to let you know i have been exposed to speed in the ocean in my life time and am well aware of what could happen if you push that 31 to 35knot plus speeds.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 9th, '21, 20:42

I appreciate all the advice from everyone. Since I’m not doing any work myself and it seems apparent that everything under the deck is going to need to be touched. I’m thinking I better start getting used to a 21kt cruise if I want to keep this below 100k.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 9th, '21, 22:39

John

You are running on the edge with 1 1/38 shafts with the 250/270's. Bite the bullet on that one up front or you might find yourself missing a prop one day.

Peter

There is work you can do yourself. Ripping the back end apart is easy. Get the engines and exhaust all disconnected for removal. I was still working at the time so I had limited time. Had a glass guy do the glass work, the diesel shop installed the engines. I painted the bilge. Did the non engine harness wiring. Updated what I needed myself.

I emptied the gas tank slowly over several weeks. That fuel went into the truck.

Yes time is tough, but if you are turning all the work over to someone, controlling the cost gets tough.

You also need a yard that will work with you. As an example, when I was ripping everything out, I couldn't get the rudders to drop. They were frozen in place. It was late on Sunday, I had to go. I asked the yard forman to get them out for me. I have known him a long time, a day or so later he calls me and says I have two options, he spends 8 hours trying to get them out or 20 minutes with a Sawzall. I voted for the sawzall since I was replacing them anyway.

Plus I was lucky the diesel shop and I hit it off really well and I know he did not bill me for some hours.

Not a lot but on a job like that every little bit helps.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 10th, '21, 07:59

John

You are running on the edge with 1-3/8 shafts with the 250/270's. Bite the bullet on that one up front or you might find yourself missing a prop one day.[/quote]

I think John has been on the edge of the ledge for some time as he HAS 300hp motors and is toying with stepping down to 220's. 220's 1-3/8" shafts are fine, 5" exhaust is perfect.

250/270's exhaust reccomended minimum is 6" dia, 1-3/8" shafts are marginal. Tony Athans says water can be diverted from wet exhaust to reduce back pressure with a more restrictive exhaust system. Its something I had toyed with in my head if I needed to reduce back pressure...which I do, but decided to just go with the recommended size exhaust. The elbows that came with my motors are from an old 4Bt, they have a 3-1/2" outlet which I took out past the bulkhead before connecting to the new 5" system. I knew it was a problem...just could not figure out why the elbow was for 3-1/2" hose when 5" was called for. AND I had plenty of 3-1/2" exhaust hose around to make the connections and splash so didn't really question it much further till connections were made and I stumbled on old 4bt literature.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Feb 10th, '21, 08:36

When Doug got Crows Nest about 20 years ago, she had freshly rebuilt 8.2s at 300 hp and what he thought were 1 1/2” shafts. He bought a set of 4-blades from UV (I still have them) that are for 1 1/2” shafts. As I remember, he found that Crows Nest has 1 3/8s at that time.

She’ll run up to 3150 plus at 31 knots or so. She hasn’t been there in years. I run her at 2200 at about 23 knots. She’s loafing and it works for me. She’s really light now. I took off the hard top, swim platform, fighting chair, genny, 4 kw crt radar and ff. Thats another boat diet. I think with a good bottom (she needs a bottom job) she’d cruise fine with 210/220s. The 8.2s are running fine, and they’ll stay there until they don’t.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 10th, '21, 09:44

The thing about undersized shafts is they hold up perfect, right up to the point they don't.

At that point hopefully the boat is not far offshore or being docking in a breeze around pricey boats.

As you said boat has 20 years on them, could be good for another 20.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Feb 10th, '21, 11:58

Doug had new shafts made, maybe out of A22 or something. As I remember, prop/shaft guy told him that the 1 3/8s were right on the edge, but on the right side of the edge. Again, I run the boat easy, and her offshore days are over.

When Doug had her, she fished some offshore including tourneys (SJ Shark) and we ran her to Montauk for the B31 rendezvous there.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 10th, '21, 21:23

Carl

The 270's require 5 inch exhaust. I had the 5 inch exhaust with the big blocks and we did not have to change it out.

EarleyBird · Post by **EarleyBird** » Feb 11th, '21, 11:06

Here are my 270 HP Cummins w/over 5K Hrs. Those of you who want to see a set in a 48 year old 31. Simple, extremely reliable, and easy to work on and maintain. EarleyBird

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 11th, '21, 12:05

Tony-
Hmmmm, the factory elbows I have seen for them on SB are for 6"hose and assumed.

Good to know, I went with 5"...if ever the day comes that I want more hp, I can swap motors to the 270's and everything would be ready to go from fuel to shafts and exhaust... Nope, I'm wrong. I'd have to upgrade the raw water line and seacock from 1-1/4" to 1-1/2".

Earlybird- you hit the nail on the head with your assessment. I love the idea you have over 5k hours on those motors. I'm hoping I can say that about mine in years to come. Yes, I was floored when having to do some maintenance on these motors, they were straight forward and kinda easy to work on. Not like so many other motors with inaccessible bolts and impossible to reach items that require disassembly and new swear words. Easy maintenance means no excuse not to get it done.
That said, seeing your maintenance on the genset...I can understand why your motors with 5k hours look like new and keep chugging away.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Feb 11th, '21, 12:52

Carl wrote: ↑Feb 11th, '21, 12:05 Not like so many other motors ... that require ... new swear words.

This is the most relatable thing I have read in some time and the way I will justify my 454s going forward.
Thank you for this gift.
Stephan