Bertram 25 conversion to an outboard powered CC

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 15th, '20, 16:47

I pulled the doghouse out of the jig over lunch and put a little filler in the front seam, I think the shape came out well
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rJGrue7nWL5hw8Vr8

I made it 80"/6'8" tall and I think it is a little bit too much given I was able to get 3" of camber. I might cut the top down 1-2" and leave the front face long to scribe to the radius of the roof.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Sep 16th, '20, 07:53

I have discovered that only people 6'1" or taller can see forward when driving my boat. I made everything to suit me...I was the model. When standing at the helm I have a perfect view of everything, while my 5'6" wife can't see anything! Ha! When sitting, I see only the sky when on plane. I have a good view when putting around. I need to design a power-adjustable helm seat...maybe next year.

As reference, my hard top is at least 6'8" above the deck. I haven't measured it, but I have lots of headroom. I was very concerned about the height of the radio box. I've been on fancy center consoles where it feels like you are driving a tank....thin window of visibility between the radio box and console.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 16th, '20, 11:25

Cam, I've got a little window to make adjustments before I put the flange on the bottom edge of the doghouse after that I can only cut the top. I was planning on starting the window 49" above the deck, roughly the top of the blue line of the filler.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YF6GvBUXhUKgBhLP6

I had my wife stand at the helm and she was at a reasonable height and should have no problems with visibility while standing as she is 5'8".

The difference of this config and what I had before with my old center console is not much different. The console face is the 4" further forward from the stern as the previous console but the new console is 6" deeper front to back and the height (bottom of window) is a little higher at 3" more than the 46" before. Relatively speaking the driving position at the helm is maybe 2" further back and the helm a little higher both of which should still be below my chest as in a comparison with this pic
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vNmPsiVRtn6aCZhV8

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 16th, '20, 19:08

Busy day today, I started off early and did the 1.5hr drive to goto LBI fiberglass for them to open at 8am bought 5 more gallons of vinlyester and 5 more gallons of polyester resin. Conference calls on the ride home and meetings straight through till 530 didn't allow any lunch time fun but after my last meeting I got outside to get to work. I layed out lines about 1" off the edge of the doghouse front face and ground the front skin and core into a radius to make the doghouse a bit more visually appealing and less of a hurt if you bumped into it. I then mixed up some vinlyester bonding compound and filled in the open nidacore honeycomb cells. I doubt I got the radius exactly right but wanted to let it cure overnight before adding another coat tomorrow.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/F8ipcV4XwKbokLK68

Lastly I added a layer of 1.5oz mat to the top of the roof of the doghouse.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tjvcFPDEnyU7CzVk9

other items - hatch doors came in the day before which will go in the sides of the leaning post as well as to get at the space inside motorwell / storage area. I got 4 of the same hatch and will mount them a few inches off the deck, the openings are 8.5"x12". They aren't as fancy as starboard ones but on the vertical should be fairly water tight as well as upgradable if I choose to do so in the future. I wanted to get something now so I could glass the inside of the leaning post to the deck as well as the inside of the transom storage area.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gteSkSQZwxbYejbYA

3 more weeks till it is too cold out to work with resins and I can rest up over the winter for my mad dash to get a motor and run the boat next spring. I can't go another year without a boat, I really shouldn't have taken most of the summer off from doing work.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 18th, '20, 21:44

I didn't get out of work until 6pm thursday night so I didn't get too much done, only setup a temporary jig to make a flange on the bottom of my doghouse and then cut strips of fiberglass.
it was some 2x3 screwed together wrapped in some tape which resin wouldn't stick to.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2Z2U6r75qQiwvLS59

I had Friday off so I got up and did some sanding before glassing. I started by glassing in the flange https://photos.app.goo.gl/rxTTHCRxwcMNZPNN8 then worked on the outside edges of the doghouse then finished up by adding some 1.5oz mat to the front face. Glassing the sides would have to wait till later as glassing vertically is no fun, so I let the glass cure out and worked on other stuff.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tmC4MBjjinrZT3sf8

Onto the leaning post - I had bonded in the top a couple of nights ago and marked off and cut out a hatch so I could use it for storage too. Today I cut the holes for the access doors and In order to make it easier to lean against I worked on beveling the edges. I didn't measure but scribed a line roughly the same distance around the top and beveled the top corners to a 45 degree angle. I pre sanded the top and sides to be able to get a good bond and then mixed up a batch of thickened resin with milled fibers and cabosil. I jammed the exposed honeycomb with the mixture then built up an excess of material almost back to what was removed. Before it cured out I glassed a layer of 1.5oz mat and used the bubble removal tool to form a nice radius - essentially I skipped a step from what I did with the doghouse.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WPeazaUs9e3DcY5i6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/p9RofvCTgbUmuPnm6

After doghouse had cured out for several hours I removed the jig for the flange - bad pic - but the flange is strong from just bonding in on the outside, 3 more layers of glass on the inside it will be 3/8" thick
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZqcoEcpAUrANcnKP7

lastly I flipped the doghouse on its side and did a layer of mat one of the sides of the doghouse - decent view of the band of glass for the flange as well as me skipping the mat where I will cut out for the window.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5xXu1QRVX2SksnCz5

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 21st, '20, 18:40

Saturday morning I really wanted to glass the outside of the doghouse with 1.5oz mat but it seemed too cold and my wife wanted to go to the cape for the weekend so I worked on other things before getting out of town after lunch........

like putting a notch in my transom. I really didn't want to notch my transom, but after seeing Cam's boat, I didn't think I could get away with not putting in a notch even with the hydraulic jackplate.

I couldn't figure out what angle - outside was 17" off of the center line, did marks lower down 15",14",13" took the pic and then decided more angle and went with 12" off of center for the low side.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Udwa4UxdxKe2h4Rm6

Did you ever get that sick to your stomach feeling when you know what you are doing just ain't right.......... Yeah I had it bad, I wanted to puke when I plunged the circular saw into the top cap.
A few min later after a tool change to a sawsall, I had a 30# chunk of transom sitting on my workbench
https://photos.app.goo.gl/exnR9X8Dq4ykVEwRA

a view of the stern after the cut out. It took a couple of hours before the queezy feeling went away in my stomach.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bibwepvqJ6iSyT7B9

I also cut in the hatch doors
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uqE8j4mBtTE33Vtg7

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 21st, '20, 18:57

I took today off from work to work on my project - gotta love PTO - no vacation for me.

I worked on a spashwell first fitting the base piece then working on the sides, the sides took me quite a long time for each piece because they are back beveled quite a bit
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5w6vkerrgdhvQJAWA
wanting it to look a bit better I got out a piece of the radius I made by wrapping a sono tube with fiberglass and fit pieces in to make inside radii
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HA2GEqxcQTkqMgSe9
I'll probably put a fair amount of filler in the upper corner
https://photos.app.goo.gl/a9VUYmx5RomwXi9p9
a view from the top
https://photos.app.goo.gl/byFcF2Xwqwbpm7uU6

by lunch time it was warm enough to glass so I added a layer of 1.5oz mat to the side of the doghouse, wrapped the side edge of the doghouse roof with mat, then started glassing in the spashwell.

I added more glass on the backside of the transom storage area - not a great pic but glassed the inside to the transom, inside to the deck, the back side of the top cap to the transom
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NPaAapbHRhbiX71W9

mixed up a bunch of filler and bonded in the bottom of the splashwell to the transom, filled the open bevel towards the bow then glassed it in.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/E2soHXbXDRijP9HZ7
Close up of the lip I left on the bottom of the spashwell over the glass of the transom
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5ZdjsqmyCyQFPdK39

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 21st, '20, 19:07

by 5pm, I had enough glassing and the doghouse and roof had cured enough to handle. I really wanted to see how the doghouse would look so I stood it up and test placed the roof on top

side view - can see where I conserved resin by not adding it to where I will eventually cut out windows.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vnLBsjSFzW4TfUHU7

Still need to cut out the radius on the top of the front face
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Lx6osgq7LEf7J7SPA

I like it, It will look a lot better when I put a curve on the front and back of the roof. It has plenty of headroom, might be a little short on shade compared to the radar arch I had but it will be much easier to fish around and will provide a lot more protection from spray when it gets nasty out.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 23rd, '20, 08:32

No pics from last night - I messed around with trying to figure out how to reinforce the top cap for swivel rod holders then when it started getting late I glassed the inside top of my doghouse with 1.5oz mat to make a nice smooth surface for fairing and gelcoat and put a 500 watt halogen on it for a few hours to get it to cure faster.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 24th, '20, 14:36

I opened another thread on reinforcing for swivel rod holders in the stern
http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14744

Over lunch I did a little sanding to get the filler pieces between the top cap and the transom storage panel I built flush. When bonding in the sides of the spashwell I filled in the core of the nida so I could radius it later on and then glass over that to make a smooth transition.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bnMV2GSfxtNP5hvP8

I bonded in the side panels of the splashwell, I wet out some pieces of 1708 to cover the bottom joint then mixed up filler with the remaining resin and fitted the 2 side panels. I spent too much time playing with the filler that the wet out fiberglass got leathery and I didn't want to risk a poor bond so I junked the pieces of glass. I jammed quite a bit of filler in the top edge and left the lip long so I could place it properly. Tonight I will ground off the lip and put a radius before glassing. Hopefully I got enough filler in there so when I ground the lip off there are no gaps and I can go straight to glassing the joint.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Sep 24th, '20, 22:56

Ktm,

Besides your extraordinary ability with fiberglass, recently with IT advice too, one can additionally notice that your lunches must last for hours... this boat was essentially built during lunch breaks lol!

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 25th, '20, 10:40

Yannis - no way - sadly I HATE AGILE project methodology for my real job but it works exceedingly well if I plan out 45min task to do over lunch.

covid has me "working from home", I haven't gone in the office for 6 months so I can pop outside for an hour for lunch if project managers don't overbook me. I've had my lunch time blocked for 3 months, Project Mangers ignore it and book me 1/2 the time. I'm typically in meetings 8am-5pm, I do my real work 9-11PM.

I've taken a PTO day but am taking a small break right now because I F'd up really bad last night. I glassed the rest of the motor well in but don't think I did the catylst right for the 2nd layer of 1.5oz mat. It didn't cure out so I had to peel it off and then covered the area in a 2x catalyzed resin, I'm hoping that will cure out so I can sand and start over again......... it looked pretty last night C'est la vie.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JymNpsfT6efLZtzu9

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 25th, '20, 20:22

the resin not curing set me back a bit today so I didn't get as much done as I would have liked but in the end most stuff got done. I'm keeping topics together but due to cure out times, I bounced between different tasks.

The over catalyzed resin on the splash well cured out and I was able to sand , put down more mat, let cure for a couple of hours then sand again and finally get a batch of fairing compound on it. I tried sanding before taking the pic, the filler was cured but my 20 year old porter cable 6" DA sander bit the dust. I had to go out and get a replacement after I cleaned up for the day.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UKZMALLK7EGsESEc9

I also finished up the flange on the doghouse, a few days ago I did 3 layers of 1708 on the outside, today I did 3 layers of 1708 on the inside, it turned out good, I can't flex the 3/8" thick flange so it should be good to go. I added a layer of 1708 underneath the seams of the dash and put 2 layers of 1.5oz mat on the outside edges above the dash portion.
In the middle of the mix, I also sanded the dash and got a layer of filler on the dash - this took 4 mixes of filler to complete.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UwCPFkqzyRFqBbzT7

I got the aluminum plates drilled out and tapped for the stern cleats - this took more time than I thought @ 10min a bolt hole, all the threads seem nice and tight, no slop.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 28th, '20, 08:44

I sound like a broken record but I didn't get as much done as I wanted. This time it was the fairing compound gumming up sanding pads. The morning was cloudy, cool and very humid, it seemed like it was going to rain even though the forecast said it wouldn't. I started early trying to knock down high spots in the fairing compound on the doghouse dash with a grinder, worked great, I got the song from the spin doctors in my head with lyrics something like "you do your brain surgery with your monkey wrench" and switched over to my brand new porter cable 6" DA with 80 grit pad. Well the 1st -4th pads loaded up with gummy mess after a few min a piece so I punted with the thoughts that the gummy surface would cure better once it got some sun on it. I setup a 500watt halogen on the work since there was no sun and moved on.

a neighbor came by and started talking to me asking why I was working non-stop on this wonderful project just as I was about to glass 1.5oz mat on the exposed nida core edges of the doghouse roof, he then commented how the top for the doghouse didn't look right. At the time, I had only curved the front of the panel, had marked off 6" back from the corner on both sides then used a batten to get a fair curve and marked that out and cut to the line. I thought it looked somewhat off and didn't know exactly how to go about fixing it, but thought it was good enough. My neighbor had the suggestion of putting a 2nd curve on the corners and we took a strip of fiberglass and used it as a batten and went about coming up with a fair curve. I think adding the 2nd curve makes it look a lot better. I glassed 2 layers of 1.5oz mat on the exposed edge, later in the afternoon trimmed off the excess.

before and after - I will need to re-do the 2nd side tonight.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/E8Kikwwf7xUj66qm7

I worked on the transom storage and integrating it with the top cap, when the insides were glassed, everything was left long so I had to do a fair amount of grinding to clean up the edges inside the storage area, Also I had left the top of the transom storage piece tall giving me the opportunity to scribe to fit once it was in the boat, I cut it down and then worked on the edges where I had previously reinforced for swivel rod holders. I beveled the edges and sanded the top cap back so I could add 1 layer 1708 and 1 layer of 1.5oz mat. Later n I should be able to fair it in and make it look seamless. Note pic taken when I was quitting for the day after it all cured.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/utx4cdScA7vYiMF28

I then worked on the transom cleats - see my other posts - it took more epoxy resin than I thought it would - the cross hatch pattern in the back as well as the fillets gobbled up thickend resin. I needed 2 batches of 16oz of resin to do both sides. I may do the to layers of 1708 in epoxy but only go 6" on any side because I probably only have about @1qt of epoxy resin left in my stash. I think if I do that then go over it in 1 large layer of 1708 over everything set in vinylester then 1.5oz mat for fairing, I should get the best of both worlds, epoxy for strength holding the pads down, then transition to vinlyester to end up with a gelcoat surface. Before folks slam me, I know the vinylester won't bond great to the epoxy based work but at that point I won't be needing the strength to hold the part down, it is purely going to be a base to put down fairing compound and gelcoat.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4mMwPrvEgd1Gt2zY7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/b7fMkqpcU1EmCAcW6

Lastly the sun had come out and I had positioned the doghouse to get a lot of sun, it had cured out the gummy in the fairing compound and I was able to sand it out. I then switched over to the spashwell and sanded that as well. The spashwell was in the sun and sanding in windpants, long sleave windshirt, dust mask, face shield, etc cooked me. I was spent by 2:30pm and had no drive to wait until the sun went behind the ridge of my house at @4pm and put down more fairing compound. I cleaned up and left for the cape.

I have to say, in years past I would have been happy with straight lines and hard 90 degree corners, all these curves, radius, and bevels I am adding in is adding a lot of time to the project but I think in the end the final outcome is going to look a lot better and be more user friendly.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 29th, '20, 08:49

Not much to report for last night, I re-cut the edge of the doghouse roof so I could put a nicer curve on the corner and glassed the edges again. There's still a small section in the center of the front and back of the roof which needs some glass.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XVqvq1STtK8UhN5s7

I also cleaned up the excess bonding compound I used to bond in the aluminum plates for the stern cleats. I had to take a framing hammer and a chisel to knock out the chunk of 2x3 I used to keep the starboard side from slipping before the epoxy cured, some of the goop got down the back side of the chunk of wood and it was well bonded into the boat.

Rain tonight and through till friday, I'm going to try to finish off glassing the edge of the doghouse roof over lunch, it should be well cured by the rain coming in @7pm. Maybe if I am lucky I can glass in the stern cleats after work?

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 30th, '20, 13:22

I've got to figure out a way to get weather reports that I trust... I don't watch much tv and using the app on my PC is messing me up. I look at it and says rain for days, next day, cloudy, I don't know what to think as it is sunny right now.

Last night it rained pretty hard and the cover on the boat partially blew off because I didn't tie it down. The results, my boat holds water quite nicely. I had 3-4 gallons on the deck in the stern quarters. I took out the bomar hatch and scooped the water into the bilge so it could drain out there. After work tonight if the weather holds I will glass in the stern cleat aluminum plates so I can drill out the scupper holes tomorrow.

It wasn't raining over lunch and the app says no rain for the rest of the day (now) so I cleaned up the edges of the 1.5oz mat I put on the doghouse roof and then stood it up on end and glassed the last portion of the front edge. Once this is done it will open up fairing and gelcoating the roof. Speaking of that... I had excess resin so I painted it on the roof thinking that it would fill the pores in the 1.5oz mat and make it easier to fair.

I was thinking that I could sand the roof from all the drips of resin which were added glassing the edges, mix up a batch of resin, add some cabosil and micro-ballons to make a thickened liquid and roll it on with a paint roller kind of like a quasi high build primer. If it fills well I could then sand the high spots and do gelcoat for real.

Thoughts??

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 30th, '20, 18:45

I somewhat answered my own question when I went out after work and saw that the surface of the roof had somewhat filled in by just painting on a layer of straight resin.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VyGFke7Tfz6Y41C59

I cut the excess glass from glassing in the front edge and then sanded the panel to get rid of all the drips I made while glassing the edges.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rrAAPch11A9oST68A

from there I mixed up 16 oz of vinlyester resin, catalyzed it on the high end of the mix ratio and then added cabosil and microballons with roughly 3 parts microballons and 1 part cabosil. The mixture came out to a little over 24 oz and was definitely thicker than gelcoat. I rolled it out with a 6" roller and let it kick. I'll see how well it covers and sands out tomorrow. If this works out, it is definitely easier than hand mixing the cream hardener into the pre-mixed fairing compound and I am sure that using the paint roller I am getting a much more consistent thickness applied. This technique should be pretty good for covering large areas that really only need the weave of the glass filled.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/f6oFDj7gvh7qGaD67

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 1st, '20, 11:56

30-40 min tasks are great to knock out in this covid stuck at home stuff if you can keep your calendar clear over lunch

I flipped over the roof and sanded and mixed up the same filler as last night.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 1st, '20, 19:08

I let the top of the roof dry out and had 5 min to run outside between meetings so I put the roof on top of the doghouse so it would get more sun, I like how it is coming out but think I could screw up the looks if I don't get the windows right. I'm thinking I will need to spend more on the side windows and make them have a rear slide so it visually breaks up the size with the center divider.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/grw5nv6wr7Gk9rLL6

I'm probably going with wynne windows - http://www.wynneinc.com/

After work I tried to sand out the top but it was clogging sanding pads so I moved on.

Have you ever had a task in a project that you just knew that it was going to SUCK and be a royal PITA? I had that task open up after I glassed in the cleats, that task was to fill in the weave of the 24oz woven roving Bertram used on the hull sides by glassing on a layer of 1.5oz mat. I had sanded most of it out before so not a lot of prep other than sanding a little epoxy resin which was left over from the corner cleats and then cut my chunks of glass and got everything ready to glass.

A little back ground... for me glassing anything on the vertical is amazingly difficult, my strategy for the most part has been to paint on resin where the glass will go, then wet out the glass on a layup table, move the glass to the end part and put it on and bubble roller until well bonded. That strategy just doesn't work for mat as it just breaks apart.

For this session I got a solvent safe roller and tray, a chip brush for small areas and a bubble roller. I mixed the resin , wet out the hull sides then waited for a couple min, slopped on a bunch of resin using the roller and then pressed the pieces of mat onto the hull sides. I quickly then used the bubble roller to roll it out and press it into the resin. I had the pieces of mat tall so I could let the pieces go out beyond where I wanted to glass and I could cut off the excess afterwards. This worked out in my favor as the hull to deck joint had a small lip where I could rest the bottom and I folded over the excess at the top and it kind of jammed in place. The paint roller let me easily wet out the rest and I used the bubble roller to make the areas where I overlapped more seamless. I stopped the mat where the epoxy covered glass was from the stern cleats.

The process went surprisingly well, I got the starboard side done fast, moved onto the port and then decided it was going so well that I would also do the exposed face of the cabin bulkheads. I rushed out of the boat, cut some more 1.5oz mat of the roll and layed out the pieces. Since my house is on a hill the boat's bow sticks up a fair amount and the bulkheads are probably 10 degrees or more back slanted due to the hill. I was fast enough with the prep that the resin didn't kick on the paint and bubble rollers, I was able to get the bulkheads done in short order. The one downside is that never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that this would have gone well and with that I didn't prep the bulkheads ahead of time where they were glassed to the floor and hull sides. Most of the bulkheads had been sanded out so I should get a good bond. There are some air bubbles in near the deck and in the very corner spots and I will need to grind and put in a bit more filler there.

overall I am thrilled that I got as much done as I did as well as knocked out some tasks that I was dreading.

Some bad pics due to lighting
starboard side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4TNTe8QAR5dnzoV1A
port side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/aL95z1mifgwaAxNGA
Cabin bulkheads - I painted off the excess resin on the floor
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DvVCwVAQu2UaciB57

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 5th, '20, 11:12

I sanded out the top of the doghouse roof and put on 2 coats of gelcoat @30 min apart. It was coming out quite good but at the end of the 2nd coat I had a bit of extra gelcoat so I was trying to spread it on with the roller and it started to fall apart.

I decided not to mess with it wet and let it cure out
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ByLvwKqewb4sGsNr9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1b3E2BUWnd6K27nr8

I let the 2nd coat cure out for an hour and then setup my compressor and HVLP gun with some PVA and coated the surface, let that cure and covered it for over night.

Next morning I was able to wash off the PVA and wet sand the top with 400 grit paper.

Overall I think it came out OK, definitely needs another coat of gelcoat, I would have liked the gelcoat to be a bright white too. This may have to wait till next year to complete.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 5th, '20, 11:25

Cabin door frame pics and design - I am thinking out what I am going to do for my cabin door and frame. Here's some pics of the area as it sits right now.

Some background - When I shortened the cabin area to make more deck space (removed 22" of cabin space) I cut the cabin top and removed a portion then glassed the top back on (see my early posts for pics of this) At the time I did not realize the cabin hatch was getting smaller because I put the pieces on closer to the bow. Right now the door is barely 24" wide and I have to go somewhat sideways to get through. I would like to make the opening a bit bigger as well as design a way to build a door frame, door and hatch over the winter.

Top View
https://photos.app.goo.gl/osnwrHfVeGTM6gPB9

View of hatch opening
https://photos.app.goo.gl/f2fXAiuUWzGJR4LMA

View of transition into the floor
https://photos.app.goo.gl/s5rVAKVjRY8o4frb7

I'm thinking of making doorway the same width as the v-birth base, I would end up loosing the molded in corners but If I went down this path getting in and out would be more straight forward.

Here's a quick design idea documented in the drawing below. I would probably make the top hatch in a similar fashion.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/S18Q3xoU9XkKVEMh8

I would like to add a little bling with some nice raised panel mahogany doors. Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Oct 5th, '20, 12:41

Thought: Mimic the setup on a B20 moppie - https://photos.inautia.com/barcosOcasio ... 24567x.jpg

Close off the top and make a crawl through door. Or, no door at all.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 5th, '20, 13:56

That's a no go on making the cabin entrance smaller, I think the opening in the top of the cabin makes it easier to get in and out. I'm 6'1" and don't fold up all that well so I need all the extra space as possible.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Oct 5th, '20, 14:42

Those are some of the reasons I eliminated the cabin all together.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 5th, '20, 15:12

As a family of 4, our days of my wife and I sleeping on the boat are done, with twin daughters having a cabin for a porta-pottie / Changing room is an essential item. The old hatch covering the porta-pottie still works and I left enough room to make it still use-able.

The cabin is big enough for the wife and kids to sleep in but would be a little cramped for me, I can get in there and sit up straight with no issues. At some point after I am back using the boat, I will fabricate a board to fill in the gap, and make cushions. I kept the old cushions as patterns.

I do want to have a lockable storage area so I can leave some stuff on the boat when not in use so I am not loading and unloading too much stuff each trip.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 5th, '20, 15:28

I saved these pics from someone else's B25 in my Archive when the boat was up for sale, not sure If I will make the top hatch cover the top frame or not, but similar thought on the doors. The interior of mine won't ever get that fancy....
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RH6R7xW5yqHqxzz17

view inside the cabin.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WQqg8eCPviqWHfp6A
https://photos.app.goo.gl/my8UcNTbf26nSgpk6

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 10th, '20, 19:50

Today's festivities - -

Started the day finishing up grinding the insides of the hull sides forward of where my doghouse will sit
port
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tZLZpjo8TcpVHjXKA
starboard
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tn5XtUjny5pJnvBn6

then glassed one layer of 1.5oz mat - crappy pics, can't really tell glass is added other than darker color
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XtypDLBL5AmdgFvs9

From there I did 3 coats of gelcoat on the underside of the doghouse roof - @30 min apart then covered the roof in PVA to let the gelcoat cure

mixed in with the gelcoat I also worked on fairing out the outside of the doghouse. I got some new fairing compound - polyfair from Merton's in Springfield MA and it seemed to work a lot better than the stuff I had been using. I was able to mix up a bunch, spread it out then, move on to another area, within 45 min I could then sand and keep going.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/L9ZUpEHeV6s9oS9k8

In the afternoon I started fairing out the insides of the hull sides, completed most along with the front face of the cabin bulkheads. I ended up getting interrupted by my neighbor who is a trucker, he has his own truck and was at a loading dock and a fork truck somehow ran its forks into the front of his truck trashing his headlight and the fiberglass around it and the grille. My Neighbor is self employed and if is truck isn't on the road he doesn't work or get paid. He has been great to me over the years and has tolerated my boat project so I had to do everything to help him get back on the road. I ended up glassing the damaged section rebuilding the area where the headlight assembly attaches then getting 2x passes of filler on it, first thing tomorrow morning I will do a 3rd pass, hopefully his headlight arrives and we can get him back to work for tomorrow afternoon.

All that and then I worked on migrating this bulletin board over to the new version - busy day today

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 10th, '20, 20:36

I went out and took a pic - it was quite dark and my phone's flash isn't great

starboard side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mgrimXbC2TyU7SmU8

Port side - I got interrupted before completely finishing this side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jDfUSkxs47t24oik7

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 14th, '20, 10:47

It was raining quite hard, actually a downpour - inside the shrinkwrap the lighting was quite poor no pics from last night

I got an extension cord setup so it wasn't on the ground, climbed into the boat under the shrinkwrap and started sanding, I don't know what was louder, the grinder, the 6" DA or the rain coming down on the shrinkwrap, anyway it was dry in the boat so I could work.

I had cut a hole in the front of the boat and put a small fan blowing out quite a while back, it wasn't doing a great job getting the dust out of the boat and with a face shield and N95 mask I couldn't breathe well so I gave up after 1.5hrs of sanding.

I got the 1st coat of fairing compound sanded out in the front of the boat under the gunnels, the cabin bulkheads as well as the deck to the middle of the boat. I did try sanding out the gelcoat I put over the 1.5oz mat in the back of the boat and while it sanded it wasn't going fast. I think If I could get in there with a 40 grit pad, it would knock down the gelcoat faster.

I am regretting putting the sealer coat of gelcoat, I think using the polyfair as a sealer coat is way more effective and easier to sand.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 14th, '20, 14:32

lunch time fun...

I worked on getting kick panels on the lower area of the doghouse. I cut scrap pieces of 3/4" nida-core which had 1708 on both sides to size and then cut out the back where it would join the sides. From there mixed up some resin and filler and bonded it in, then put a layer of 1708 on the back side

pic showing back side of nida cut out
https://photos.app.goo.gl/25z81AScHDDN6tbbA

test fit into place with clamps
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Vj4iEGSymFhigzv67

I also worked on a piece to hold my vhf radios and stereo up high in the doghouse - I cut 2 pieces of nida-core and did a similar treatment to the pics above - I bonded them together with 1708. I made the piece long and will cut to size after work and bevel edges - will post a pic of the piece then

pic of design - yellow panel is what I am after- slight change to the drawing is that the front panel will be L shaped and there will be a small section attached to the front of the doghouse. I will figure out how to cover the gap later, a screwed in panel or maybe canvas and snaps
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vbKr2dHrhxJcjUK29

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 14th, '20, 16:06

Matt,

The guy next to me in a B28 had the yard custom-make for him a half tower onto which he would attach his antennae, horn, etc.
The yard made it out of foam encapsulated in glass layers, so that it be light.
During the building process the guy who made it followed a plan of where those devises would be screwed on or be hung from, and he carefully incorporated pieces of ply. That way he wanted to make sure that when the owner would start tighten screws or through bolts, the structure would remain unscathed.
I don’t know what you have in mind, I just wanted to bring to your attention the level of punishment this nidacore can withstand from screws and bolts, before it cracks. Good day.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 14th, '20, 19:07

Yannis,

This stuff can take a beating, as an example the piece I cut off the top of the doghouse to match the curve of the roof 40" long and 3" wide in the most narrow section, see the shadow of the roof on the front face in this image to get an idea of the piece I am talking about https://photos.app.goo.gl/t9Z6XgHJz69FFcvp6

I tested it by swinging it like a baseball bat against the stone wall, I got 3 hard hits against the very end before the core cracked at the thinnest point. The end where it contacted the wall was not damaged. I smashed the end with a 20oz framing hammer and it took multiple hits before it crushed the core and started to come apart

Even with it being strong, I don't want to put a bunch of screw holes when I don't have to so I will be putting some type of board under the helm to take the bulk of the screws. I am more concerned with screw holding capability than I am of strength, 1 layer of 1708 will hold a screw but not well, add a layer of 1.5oz mat or a 2nd layer of 1708, it will hold a screw fine and won't have any issues.

Here's the kick panels I fabricated and installed over lunch, bonded at the edge and 1 layer of 1708 on backside and it is quite strong. I sanded underneath the helm and will gelcoat the whole area, some type of composite board will go on top for the wiring. In the top part of the doghouse you can see the piece I fabricated to put the vhf radios into, I made the piece long, I'll have to figure out how much headroom I am willing to loose when I cut it down to install it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/okC7VWzThwCukciq7

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 15th, '20, 19:18

I side tracked away from this thread a bit with another thread on attaching the roof.
http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14784

glassing the roof in tonight was no fun, glassing anything vertical or upside down is just not easy by yourself, mix the 2 with 1/2 vertical, the other 1/2 upside down it gets ugly.

I did 2 layers of 1708 6" wide over everything and 2 more layers 12" wide where the outrigger bases will go. In order to be able to stick the pieces up, I had to cut the length shorter and ended up cutting them a little over a foot long and did it somewhat random so I could space out the joints and overlap so there wouldn't be a joint over a joint.

I had originally wanted to put a layer of 1.5oz mat over it all to help fair in but I had run out of resin, the other day when I helped my neighbor glass the damaged front end of his tractor trailer truck, at first he was going to do the work at another location. I had given him a 1 gallon jug of resin along with some mat and 1708, He ended up bringing the truck home and I used resin out of a 5 gallon container I had. Well he didn't give back the 1 gallon of resin yet and neither he nor his family were home when I was glassing so I will have to add the mat layer later and sand in between.

I've got a 500watt halogen on the area now keeping it nice and warm so the resin kicks faster.

Tomorrow it is going to rain so I was going to go and pick up more fairing compound, I will add a gallon of resin to the order list to make sure I can keep working over the weekend.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 17th, '20, 19:07

Yesterday after work I drove out to Merton's Fiberglass and picked up some more materials, 2 more gallons vinlyester, 2 gallons gelcoat, 5 gallons fairing compound - hopefully I can get warm weather to use it all up in the next week or 2.

It was pretty cold this morning so I got a late start and worked on the inside of the cabin bulkheads, another suck job I've been not wanting to work on. I got the cabin hatch open, put a fan in the opening and got in the cabin and sanded the 1708 I used to tab the back side of the panels then the panels themselves. The fan did a good enough job keeping the dust down and it didn't take too long to sand the area to put 1.5oz mat down.

I got the area ready and cut the mat
https://photos.app.goo.gl/TKUfBzFsDtvW3awS6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/d4Adscs5RiugceMu9

When I went to glass the area I was worried about fumes in the enclosed area, I put on a better 3m respirator mask because the fumes would still be bad even with the fan, I setup a 2nd fan and had it blowing into the cabin, so 1 fan blowing in, one blowing out.

It wasn't too bad to glass and all the prep definitively helped manage the fumes, I closed up the hatch and put a small ceramic heater in the cabin and then put plastic over the door to keep the area nice and warm so it would cure out fast.

when I got into the boat after the rain yesterday, there were 5 or more gallons of water in the stern area so I wanted to cut out the holes for my scuppers. I think I somewhat messed up here as I drilled out the holes with a 1" hole saw but I don't think I will be able to get the brass tube to seal the edge of the hole. I think I should have started the hole and got the center hole started, then switch to a 1.25" hole saw to cut a small depression and leave a lip where I can then put in the brass drain tube, then switch back to the 1" hole saw and drill the hole.

Here's the cores - almost 3/4" solid glass
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zfGVN2SBCmYDnQnK9

Lastly I glassed in some panels to mount my vhf's up high in the doghouse, I setup some pieces of 2x3 in a T with the base resting on the top of the console and the top making a flat consistent plane to mount the panels front and back, I did a layer of 1708 on the back side top edge and one on the sides front and back. To keep the area warm I switched the ceramic heater to the doghouse and used plastic to enclose the area.

after diner I took a look at the glass and took the jigs out
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UEFekzNG4HvLJJ95A

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 18th, '20, 18:51

Today was one of those days in a project that not a huge amount got done but I am psyched of the progress made.

It was kind of cold this morning so I did a lot of sanding of the deck and the area under the gunnels. Closer to mid-day I worked on the console and sanded the glass holding the top on then worked through multiple passes of fairing compound to get the area fair. By 3pm I was kind of spent fairing and sanding so I decided to get the console in the boat with the thought that I could heat the area under the shrinkwrap to keep the project going.

The doghouse was a bit heavier than I thought it would be but leaning it back, put a wood block under the front, lean it forward and put wood blocks under the back, then the next step I went to having it sit on top of 5 gallon pails and at that point it was fairly high and I leaned in on the gunnels and once it was leaning on the gunnels I was able to lift and slide it on top. Once on the gunnels it wasn't hard to position it and stand it up in the boat.

It took me a while to unbolt and remove the radar arch but here's what it looks like

outside view
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ky4HjCteVujcPcy6
looking back from front corner
https://photos.app.goo.gl/fbTLQVzuqrrhiUNX8
fishbox hatch in the front
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bfQpmEGoFjAkPs8H7
looking back starboard side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pLFTsuUKH6RDNLgN7
sitting on the transom
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2HUkfbhLdvrdVVNC7

after getting mentally re-charged I then did the 1st pass of the fairing in the stern area and put the cover back on the boat.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RtoLPPxsm4UFEW767

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 19th, '20, 12:11

lunch time fun - I pulled back the cover, took some pics of the boat then worked on fairing the front 1/3 of the deck

Fairing front 1/3
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nZEfGg9zA3ynAXdH6

Stern quarter
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vgZywriZqAocYioU8

side view
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4MSFZwDHc1hJu27JA

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 19th, '20, 18:40

After work tonight I put some 1.5oz mat on the vhf panel and 2 layers to seal the exposed edge of the transom splash well.

no pics and again no fun doing the upside down and vertical parts of the vhf panel.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 20th, '20, 12:05

lunch time fun - I sanded out the 1.5oz mat I used to tie in the front sides of the VHF panels and got a pass of fairing compound.

I have to say I am not good at spreading this stuff, plus rushing to get stuff done over lunch has me somewhat sloppy............ but the heat is on it and will be ready to sand out and fill the small gaps tonight
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gXsWdTWqSUAFtYjBA

btw - on the dumb things I did and you shouldn't do - last night I dripped some resin on my plastic face shield, not thinking that it was plastic, I tried to wipe it off with an acetone soaked paper towel. It clouded the surface - JUNK $20 mistake if I can find another one in COVID land.

thankfully I had 2 of them and could sand today.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 22nd, '20, 07:59

I did a lot of sanding and some more fairing last night on the Doghouse, I am not efficient at the fine tuning and compact areas or the different transitions from wall to flat point. I struggle with the radius curves. Last night I concentrated on getting crisp inside corners going to the vhf panel and around the front window.

I've also watched some videos by Eastwood on body shop work and tried some of the techniques such as building up and area with compound, letting the fairing cure out for 20 min then coming in with a 36 grit sanding board to knock it down. The concept they presented was while not fully cured the filler would not make fine dust and still shape well. It seemed to work and I did 2 passes with the technique to cover the lower rounded edge of the vhf panel and the lower front face of the window.

I want to get this console done well enough that I can 2 coats of gelcoat on it this Saturday as I am running out of good temperature days and would like to be able to assemble the dash area over the winter. If the gelcoat isn't perfect, so be it. Fine tuning Cosmetics will be a year 2022 project to fix because this boat will be running next spring even if it is UGLY.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 24th, '20, 19:46

Today was good, bad, good, REALLLY BAD

Good - working in daylight I was able to see the flaws in the fairing of the doghouse, I sanded, put on small wipes of fairing compound, rinse repeat, this went on for a while.

Bad - the weather forecast said 10% chance of rain, around 2 it rained for 10 min right after I put what I thought was the last bit of fairing compound.
That stuff didn't cure even though I had it over catalyzed. I ended up sanding under the gunnels while waiting. After waiting way too long I punted and scraped it off.

good - by 3pm the sun was back out I had everything sanded and wiped down with acetone, the radar shot showed no chance of rain for the rest of the day so I broke out the no wax gelcoat and started painting. By 4:15 I had the first coat done and a touch test of the 1st part I did showed it mostly cured but slightly tacky. I waited 30min and got out a new roller cover, paint tray and mixing cup then shook up the final wax added gelcoat for 5 min or so. The 2nd coat of wax added went well and was quite a bit quicker because the 1st coat I worked into places and the 2nd coat didn't need the same volume of material. I ended up using 12 oz less gelcoat on the 2nd coat as I did on the first. I was done by 5:30 and it was still mid 60s.

The really ugly - after cleaning up and having supper I went outside to see how it was doing and it was still tacky to the point of being wet, I put the shrinkwrap cover on the boat, in an effort to reduce the volume of area to heat added a 2nd piece of plastic wrapping the back side of the doghouse roof and used a bunch of squeeze clamps to clamp it to the shrinkwrap and hull sides. I put a small electric heater inside and plan on letting it go overnight.

WTF???? the containers of gelcoat had the same catalyst chart on them - 20 min gel time = 10cc per quart, I worked out of the same catalyst container and I mixed batches of 16oz and did 7.5cc per batch on both the no-wax as well as the waxed gelcoat. All mixes were done with adding catalyst and mixing for 2 min. 1st batch did outside front and port side, 2nd batch did starboard side and 3/4 of the inside helm area, 3rd batch finishing the helm and then doing underneath the dash where the wiring will go. All the areas were still tacky so it wasn't a batch was off, they all are.

I hope the heat helps, I really don't want to have to figure out how to get all of this stuff off

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 24th, '20, 21:18

10pm update, the heat seems to be helping, I ran a 2nd extension cord and put a 500 watt halogen to heat the front.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 25th, '20, 07:10

7:45am update - the heat definitely helped. The majority of what I care about on the doghouse gelcoat has cured and is not tacky in any way. I had extra gelcoat at the end yesterday and I painted in the center of the windows where I didn't fair and will also be cut out. Those areas were still tacky and left a residue on my fingertips.

I think this comes down to film thickness, since I put on less material in the 2nd coat the thickness might have been too thin and I've read that it causes cure issues.

there is a fair amount of orange peel, hopefully the 2 coats are enough to wet sand.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 26th, '20, 08:18

yesterday morning I turned off the 500 watt Halogen but left the heater going and we went to the cape for the day, when we got home all the gelcoat had cured and there was no tacky anywhere.

This event definitely spooked me as I had visions of 40+hrs labor to scrub off all the gelcoat with acetone then re-prep and do the whole job over again in the spring, like when I used the crap jamestown distributors bilge paint.

It is supposed to be cold this week with the kicker being it might snow Friday, I have about 1 gallon of fairing compound left and I would love to get it on the deck to use it up and not waste it. I am going to sand tonight and hopefully spread the fairing over lunch and heat the area tomorrow.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Nov 4th, '20, 18:42

It was fairly warm today so I went out after work and cut holes for 4 cup holders on top of the dash as well as made paper templates to see how the dash would look with electronics and switches
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JBq1aqgcPsKZSjUAA

I'm not worried about the doghouse falling apart - here's a pic of the cores cut out of the top of the dash
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z6izqfChnHNeT2io7

I also got a small hole saw and 90 degree drill adapter so I could cut limber holes in the center stringer in my bow area to allow any water to make its way to the stern.

Lastly I tried out a couple of different configs for the dash layout, I'm not sure what I like yet
both displays to one side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bNEnXecwuDVv1yDb6
symmetrical look
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XSSCvhJmWj9NeKK36

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Nov 5th, '20, 09:21

Symmetrical

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Nov 5th, '20, 13:01

Lunch time fun, cutting holes in my boat and test fit the VHF and stereo.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/P1vDTMxkQ1nobHF59

I didn't realize until I opened the box that the mic for the VHF came out on the left side so I put the Stereo in the center and the VHF on the left side so the mic cable would not hang down in my sight line.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Nov 5th, '20, 20:25

unlike last weekend, there is no snow in the forecast, surprisingly the forecast says low 60s so I am going to get as much done as I possibly can while it isn't too cold. I've gotten a lot further along in my project than I would have expected at this point and I thought I was pretty much done with any major fabrication projects for this year so a few days of warm weather has got me thinking and taking on a few things I was going to put off till next year.

In preparation tonight I sanded the back 1/2 of my deck in order to lay down a coat of fairing compound tomorrow over lunch.

The notches I had made in the top cap to allow the radar arch to fit the boat were supported underneath with 3/4" marine ply and the gunnel supports underneath that were 3/4" marine ply as well. In wanting to get the top cap back to a more original shape I worked on cutting out the gunnel supports and the notches I put in the top cap.

My thoughts to replace the gunnels supports are to use the fuel tank hatch I fabricated when I first got my boat. Many years ago, I bought my boat from an charity auction on ebay and the boat was located in Chicago. I bought the boat without checking it out and took a risk. I think I did well as the only really bad part on the boat was the hatch over the fuel tank where the core was completely rotted out due to water getting in from screw holes. When I got the boat home I fabricated a new hatch out of 3/4" divinicel, now that I have a solid nida core deck I no longer need that old hatch. I was thinking of putting the hatch to good use and get rid of the plywood gunnel supports and replacing with parts made out of the fuel tank hatch. There should be enough material to make the 4 gunnel supports I cut out as well as an additional set where I stretched the gunnels to make the deck bigger.

In the pic below, you can see the full length support under the back leg of the radar arch and the smaller one under the forward leg. I will replace them using the original wooden ones as templates and will put another smaller support in the middle of where I added in a piece to the gunnels.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zP6MBQVV1KYdyRgi7

beachbum · Post by **beachbum** » Dec 26th, '20, 03:40

Hey Ktm.....been a while, anything new to report?

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Dec 27th, '20, 21:40

No not really, in my area it will be too cold to do any glassing work until mid to late April. I don't have a decent way to heat the shrink wrapped boat so I have to wait.

it doesn't help that I've got plenty of hobbies, such as hunting and photography so I've concentrated on those. Black powder Deer season ends the 31st so I'll switch back to the boat soon.

I've got a decent pick list of parts to purchase over the winter as well as some wiring I can get done in my console. I've got to get my act together and get back on it soon.

Items high on my list are measuring and ordering custom framed aluminum windows and calling around the various marinas and getting quotes on motors. The theory I am working off of is getting a motor hung early april no matter what the boat looks like, then covering up the motor with plastic wrap and doing cosmetics work until it looks decent enough to take fishing. If I don't get the cosmetics done well, who cares, I've been without a boat for far too long and need to be fishing.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 28th, '20, 06:50

ktm_2000 wrote: ↑Dec 27th, '20, 21:40 If I don't get the cosmetics done well, who cares, I've been without a boat for far too long and need to be fishing.

A man after my own heart.

I have no idea how some can work on their boat project year after year and keep the enthusiasm going. I was into my 2nd season sitting out and frustrated as hell. With July coming around I set a date and it was going in one way or another and in it went with electrical work, seating, glassing, sealing decking still remaining to be done. The travel lift was headed over as I was putting nuts on the tower legs. But in it went...

Going in and using recharged the batteries a bit allowing me to tackle some things...like wiring up shore power and the battery charger.

Get er done enough and get er in!