Cockpit Moisture - Concern or not?

[ranjr13]

The deck and hatches in the cockpit is obviously not original. They were scuffed up a bit when we bought the boat, and had them refinished in a 2-tone and look great. They are very solid, no flex - look and feel great....except they pegged the moisture meter during a survey and failed the boat. The rest of the boat is considered "extremely clean and in great structural shape." Any thoughts on a way to fix and/or document it's not a significant issue that should complicate a sale and/or insurance coverage? What company would have likely built this? If replacement is a necessary evil, anyone with experience recently with where to get a "kit" from and any cost ideas? Thanks!

[Tony Meola]

Bob

From the configuration of the hatch's I would say that was built by Glass Tech.

Heck the deck comes out in 3 pieces. To me that would not be an issue. If the core is solid, I don't see it as a game changer. Maybe he is just trying to get a better deal. I would see if you could get someone else to check the moisture level.

If memory serves me correctly, the deck new back in the 90's was around $3,500 and was balsa cored. Glass Tech is still in business, I would call them and price a deck. If the original offer he made you was close to what you wanted, you could just reduce the price by the value of a new deck.

Did you pull the deck for them to repaint them? If you did, the guy you had repaint the deck could probably tell you what kind of shape they were in. When I had mine done, they found a spot to repair, and took care of it for me. If they painted them in the boat, then they might not know what type of shape the core was in, since they did not have access to the under side.

They only reason for the core to be wet, is if a screw or perhaps an old fighting chair, was not properly sealed where the mounts went into the deck.

[Tommy]

Bob, I agree with Tony that it looks like the Glass Tech unit that I had in Island Girl. What I can’t discern from the picture is the series of holes or screw heads that appear to run across the deck; what are these? As Tony pointed out, mine was balsa-cored and I had some soft spots where the FG skin had been compromised. Capt Pat ground out the wet balsa and filled and patched with one of his formulas. My three deck panels were secured from underneath so no rain or deck water could penetrate the fastener holes. If what I’m seeing in the photo are fastener penetrations, then that could be the source of the moisture. I further agree with Tony that it can be remedied and should not kill a deal. If a boat is solid structurally and mechanically, then a deck replacement is a manageable fix.

[Carl]

The deck should not kill a deal...it's three cored panels sitting on supports.

You could replace with new glass deck.

You could remove bottom, pull wet core, replace with new than re-glass again...lots of work to replace the entire I'd be concerned about warping due to shrinkage, but doable...I have done sections and hatches and did not come out bad.

Could try to drill holes and let deck dry out till you get good readings than pump in thinned epoxy AKA- Git Rot

Could go old school original and replace with Marine Ply covered in Nautilex fabric. It's a perimeter cutout, hatch cutout, strips to support hatch and cover. The toughest part was finding monel staples to secure underside ends.


A wet deck on these boats should not hold back a deal...its not integral with boat nor is it structural.

[ranjr13]

Thank you all, agree with your comments and all on the same page. The buyer walked without negotiation, stopped the surveyor from even completing, which is fine with me. If that was enough of a concern given everything else as clean including the Yanmars, wonder what else would be next. I will reach out to Glass Tech. They were painted in the boat (other than the hatches) and have shown no signs of weakness. I agree the screw heads from the top are the likely culprits, interested in securing from below as mentioned if we do replace. Appreciate the guidance as always from this group....Bob

[buzzk]

Bertram 33's have a lot of trouble with the coring in the deck. The fix was to take the deck out flip it over cut the bottom side out replace the the rotten coring, fiberglass the new coring in, flip it over and put it back in the boat. Nasty job but not really hard. You don't even have to disturb the top side of the deck.

[Tony Meola]

Bob

The yard had my deck built in 96. It is also balsa cored, except for one repair area. But the way they built the deck, they made a border of solid glass around the edges for the screw penetration. This protected my balsa core.

I would not panic, the guy really did not want the boat otherwise he would of cut his offer. Usually the surveyor can tell how wet the core is. If he said some moisture probably not an issue right now and might go several years before it is an issue. I would pull deck and check the under side. I would also think about opening an area, from the underside near a screw hole to try and see if there is any water getting in. If there is, open it up until you hit dry balsa, fill it with epoxy mixed with cabosil and then close it up. Do that for each screw hole and then you should be good to go. If you don't hit dry balsa, then just cut out every thing you can and replace it from the bottom.

When I had some delamination in one section of mine, that is what was done. The section with the delamination was cut out from the bottom and replaced. Never needed to touch the top side.

[ranjr13]

Excellent ideas, thank you. May try that with one of the hatches, as they all had the same meter feedback I believe - will meter the entire area myself and consider pulling it and flipping it to get to the areas affected. Thanks again. This site is still very worthy of the $4.50 donation I give each year.....lol.

[Tommy]

Bob, not taking cheap shots at anyone, but the units were never designed to be fastened from the top through the core. The deck sections were to be set in place and SS screws applied from underneath through a lip that ran longitudinally down the edges of the three sections. I believe the three sections were to be set in place and "dry-fitted", then the center section taken up, and then screws applied to the lips from the bilge area. After securing the outer sections, the center section was replaced and a few screws applied via hatch access. Gravity was the primary force holding the deck in place, but the "blind" fasteners kept the sections from shifting or lifting during an occasional "launch and drop" scenario in big seas.

Your boat is an exceptional example of the classic B-31 Express Cruiser, so anyone who cuts and runs with this scenario apparently doesn't know what he's looking at. I believe your original assessment was correct that he would have flared over something else in the survey, not understanding how well designed and built these classics are.

[Pete Fallon]

Bob,
After surveying close to 60 31's, the Glass Tech Balsa cored decks just about always showed some signs of wetness, either from screw holes that were not properly sealed or edges of hatches that some cracks from being dropped over the years. As long as the sub-flooring (mahogany uprights) are not rotted out, I would re-core the areas that showed wet, cut the bottom sides of the balsa core decks and hatches with a grinding wheel dig out the rot or the entire cored hatch if necessary, replace with 5/8" or 3/4" high density PVC foam and re-glass the bad areas. I did my express cockpit sole in 1" thick 80 pound PVC foam board added Solid glass strips at the edges to screw down aft and forward sections and around where my fighting chair went thru the dec. Mine was overkill but dropping gaffs and heavy sinkers on it did not make any dents. I taped off the edges and applied a medium sand finish into the tacky gel coat with a baby powder bottle of medium sand additive. Holes in the top of the bottle are just the right size for the sand to flow just right. Blow off excess with air hose. I did the same thing to my new style engine box hatches.
You learn how to do your own work after begin in the marine building business for 15 years, before I started surveying,especially at owning a 31 for 30 plus years.
Pete Fallon

[ranjr13]

Tommy/Pete - completely agree with you both, and likely will go the route of pulling it, digging out bad core, re-glassing from the bottom, then when it goes in fastening it from the bottom so it's done right. Pete - you know this boat, and if I found it now when I was looking and know how well it's been cared for over the years, this would not be an issue taking this boat. Looks like one more project to make it "even better." Thanks again guys. Pete, haven't heard from you in a while, hope you're doing well....Bob

[Tooeez]

I repaired a few soft spots in my deck over the winter--I used a router set just deep enough to cut through the fiberglass underside, and kept moving back until I hit dry core, filled with foam and reglassed. I plugged the top side of each screw hole with a dowel so no epoxy could run out, and then from the back drilled down with a 3/4 bit to the top, and filled the hole with epoxy. Turned it over, cut off the dowels and redrilled the holes so now the screws go through solid epoxy. It's an easy job, and from the top there is no signs any repairs were done.
By the way, if I were looking at a 40+ year old boat that was "extremely clean", and the only issue was the cockpit deck, I don't think I would even mention it before reaching for my checkbook . . .

[Pete Fallon]

Bob,
Still having issues with the knee, been over a year since I tore 2 ligaments and a tendon in the 4th replaced knee. Ligaments have healed up but Ham string is still bad. I keep pugging away. doing PT 2x week for the past 8 months. Somedays it's bad other days it's real bad. Good luck with the deck project It's not that difficult to do.
Pete Fallon

[ranjr13]

Great idea about replacing screw holes with epoxy and re-using them rather than secure from below, and router. This will likely be a fall/winter project, will take pics and share for future. Again, thank you all.

Pete, keep at it - one day at a time, you're doing great!

Bob