46mph Bertram 31 !

[Carl]

So with that said, it doesn't sound like anyone on this thread owns an old B20 with I/O.

If you had a lift, would you consider it?

I told you the issues with I/O's, my biggest issue is the Aluminum sitting in the water.
On a lift, its better, maybe much better. But still when you run, its in the water and just being in a salt water environment causes issues.
Bellows leak, a pain to get in and around motors...

That is the bad.

_______________________________________________________

The good...and there is some good points

The good is the motors are pretty much whats in a car and for me I am pretty familiar working on those motors.

Parts tend to be less costly then outboards.

I like the motors being inside the boat way better then being out on the transom.

I know I drop stuff...I only lose a few items when the stuff falls INSIDE the bilge. Drawback to outboards

The drives are not cheap...but there are usually a bunch that can be had somewhat reasonable. Advantage over outboards
The motors are just motors if you need to buy or change out.

Having the drive past the transom isn't the best for fishing. But I spent many a day sitting on transom with feet out over and pole past the drive catching many many fish.
Also nice to have an unobstructed view when looking back. Yep, another outboard dig.

The drives are pretty simple units to work on if your mechanical and can avoid using Vice Grips, Pipe wrenches
and the like. Plus keep up on maintenance and anode replacement.

The thrust is perfectly in line with direction of travel so much more economical then inboards.

Low water the drive can come up some and still allow you to make headway...nice feature over inboards.

Maneuverability is point and go in forward or reverse...not quite so much with inboards, especially if single screw.

No water...raise drive, get out have a picnic or a couple drinks. Enjoy the day till tide comes back in with no worries. Once tides in and floating lower drive and go. Do that with inboards and your never sure if your bent up and stuck, bent but can get back ...or real lucky just put in gear and go.

Wanna trailer...raise drive and your good.


Boats are a compromise, no matter what..even the perfect boat is.
The right boat came along with I/O's I'd buy.
The right boat came along with outboards...I'd buy.
Inboards...yup same thing.


Just preferences, they all have merit.

You gotta remember one huge important piece of information...

You asked a crowd on a 31 Bertram forum for their opinion.
That opinion is gonna be biased.

[Yannis]

I was hoping to read the following but nobody brought it up so far, so here it is.

When you buy something with some value OTHER than the intrinsic value of the product per se (like buying a rare item where rarity IS an additional product value, or when an item belonged to a famous person, or a special design item etc), then I suspect you want to PRESERVE that additional value.
When you buy a Jaguar e-type, a % of the purchase price is paid for the car itself and perhaps a greater % is paid for the fact that you become a member of an elite that owns such an outstanding car, or an old Ferrari or a classic VW beetle etc.

So, when you buy a B 31, you are paying for the cost of the boat PLUS all the additional values pertaining to a B 31, like the first deep v boat, the legend that accompanies the brand, the discontinuation element, the special looks, the allure around the particular boat etc. That is why there is a B 31 board...because there IS a value to preserve among owners of B 31’s. Just as much as there probably isn't a fan group for Edsels or chewing gum...because there probably isn't much value to preserve there.

Why on earth would you want to alter the product characteristics of a product whose value LIES with those characteristics?
Would you add special tires and fenders on a Ferrari and go off road? Would you modify an e-type into a van? I believe you could, but how wise is that?
When you add outboards to a B 31 you ruin all the intangible values that are inherent to this very particular boat.
You prefer a CC with outboards ? Go buy a CC with outboards! Why ruin a B 31 by putting outboards to it? There are hundreds of good boats out there that are better suited for outboards, which are designed to bear outboards...

What a careless use of funds is the transformation of the product characteristics of a “classic”, like a B 31, whose very VALUE lies with the preservation of those now abandoned characteristics?

You want to be different? You have overflowing imagination? You're smart? Don't know what to do with your money? Go play elsewhere...why sacrilege on a B 31?

[Carl]

I was hoping to read the following but nobody brought it up so far, so here it is.


When you buy a Jaguar e-type, a % of the purchase price is paid for the car itself and perhaps a greater % is paid for the fact that you become a member of an elite that owns such an outstanding car, or an old Ferrari or a classic VW beetle etc.

Jaguar e-type...I do not dare look to see if anyone is modifying these...that would be sacrilege.
I thought for my 1st car I was getting to buy one of these...dads, friend/customer was leaving country rather quickly selling house, business, boat, cars...the cars he has an older Mercedes diesel and an gorgeous Jaguar e type. My dad was interested in the Mercedes and the guy was pushing for him to buy both...I was looking for a car at the time and had about 1/2 of what the guy wanted to buy the 2nd car as a bundle...but dad wasn't going for it. Which I guess in retrospect was sorta good as the car looked great, but needed some work (maybe alot) and no way was I going to be able to afford to do much or any of it. But is a car that could just sit in a driveway and have me look at it....those lines. Wow.


[quote="Yannis" a classic VW beetle [/quote]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_buggy

https://www.google.com/search?q=classic ... Lo-iTYn7cM:

Just as much as there probably isn't a fan group for Edsels

https://edselclub.org/
http://www.edsel.com/
http://www.internationaledsel.com/

or chewing gum ...because there probably isn't much value to preserve there.

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/chewing-gum
https://www.facebook.com/ChewingGum.events/
http://www.gumassociation.org/


When you add outboards to a B 31 you ruin all the intangible values that are inherent to this very particular boat.
You prefer a CC with outboards ? Go buy a CC with outboards! Why ruin a B 31 by putting outboards to it? There are hundreds of good boats out there that are better suited for outboards, which are designed to bear outboards...

What a careless use of funds is the transformation of the product characteristics of a “classic”, like a B 31, whose very VALUE lies with the preservation of those now abandoned characteristics?

You want to be different? You have overflowing imagination? You're smart? Don't know what to do with your money? Go play elsewhere...why sacrilege on a B 31?[/quote]




Yannis you make some great points and I sorta agree with them to a point.

Yes, they are true classics with lines that have stood the test of time...and to a degree should remain as such.


The other point is they are also excellent boats.
People have different wants and needs from a boat so they adapt the boat to fit their needs and likes.



The boats are also getting old...classic or not, they are old and can really some show that age...hence can be priced very reasonable.

So if a person wants a good boat with outboards they have to shell out the outboard money plain and simple.
Then comes what to put them on.

Good quality hulls in the 30' range and priced pretty darn high. Older boats may be cored, bad transoms, bulkhead and stringer rot...$$$ project or $$ hull

31 Bertram, dam good hull can be had reasonable. Solid fiberglass hull, bulkheads and stuff are not structural...makes for an easier project. Also the hull is comparatively light, nice lines.

[Yannis]

Haha Carl, you nailed me with the vw and edsel sites!!! but I think you get my point.

And, yes, what you're saying about why a B31 could be a good candidate for o/b's, I agree, good hull, right price, no core, etc...why not?

However nobody can stop me from thinking that whatever else - beyond the original intended use - for a B31, is and will always be sacrilege...
Whether there is logic or no logic behind such a modification, the definition for me is sacrilege.
I would never buy a 31, too impractical for me, but I cannot close my eyes to what it represents...
In a way there SHOULD be some sort of discrimination on who may be eligible to buy one, even used!
Like Rolls-Royce does...or did in the past, anyway.

[Rocky]

Yannis you hit the nail on the head with my way of thinking for the Bertram31. I was a die hard steward for keeping her as close to original with the help of the Capt, all the way up to when I lost her financially. I was hoping someone would carry this intense special detail about this 31 as I did. The boat was literally ready for the iron in it's belly. Even the 6" exhaust out the stern molded ever so carefully into transom and engine beds awaiting engines for that last moment of glory to get her back on the water. Talk about how easy it would have been to do, all the hard work was done for a traditional Steward to take over! But a traditional Steward did not. So it is what it is, and it still will be a boat for someone to enjoy even if not in the traditional sense and I'm still glad she isn't just sitting somewhere in a boneyard. It was a blow to the gut to see her in that configuration though I must say!

[Yannis]

Hey, Rocky, I can feel the sacrifice when having to let go of a beloved item, a boat is worse, but you never know.
Life makes cycles, one day you may hop on to another one, hang in there.
Is THIS boat with the o/b’s your old boat?

[Rocky]

Yes Yannis,
That was mine!

[Carl]

Haha Carl, you nailed me with the vw and edsel sites!!! but I think you get my point.

Oh, of course, I definetly I got your point and it was well taken...

but a little too much coffee and the internet at my fingertips...I knew there had to be clubs for those sort of things. there are fan clubs for literally everything.


As the years go by I find myself just caring less about the tangible stuff and more about just enjoying it or seeing others enjoy it.




Rocky-

I do feel for you, you put alot of your blood sweat and tears into that boat, it would have been nice to see her finished in the direction you started.
It wasn't meant to be...but on the bright side, you did get to see her finished and your ol' boat is now a show stopper. Granted not the show you wanted to see.
I wish the former Stewart of mine was still alive. Mostly because he was a great friend of my dads and just a fantastic guy in general. The other is he took great pride in that boat. He'd stop in every few months and we'd get to talking about fishing, projects I had planned, projects I was working on, where I was going with the boat for vacation. I think he got a real kick out of the projects I did every year. I think he'd be real happy to see me finally putting diesels in after all these years. Originally I used to tease him for having that same boat for 12 years...this is my 25th year with her.

[Yannis]

Rocky, I feel for you...


Carl,
With all this talk and stuff you PURPOSELY evade your duties...namely to keep us updated on your repower, with pics and everything!!!

[Rocky]

Thanks guys I appreciate those kind words. I know I’ll find the one meant to be some day when everthing “lines up” just right!

[Carl]

Carl,
With all this talk and stuff you PURPOSELY evade your duties...namely to keep us updated on your repower, with pics and everything!!!

Not much has happened since I pulled motors. Got a couple hours in cleaning up the bilge, started modifying the beds and then work got crazy.
Its been work eat and bed.

[captbone]

Devils advocate:

We all love the original B31 so I think it is tough get an unbiased opinion on a site dedicate and in love with the B31. (I am one of them so dont flame me).

The originality or altering the intended design of an older boat really has no impact outside the walls of this forum. The demand and flame for the B31 seems to be getting dimmer and dimmer as the next generation is not into offshore fishing as much and the looks of the boat can be a little dated. I remember pointing out a beautiful B31 to my wife and she replied back that she likes the boat next to it much better "It was a Searay!"

My point being that functionality, form and usefulness are much more important vs "keeping with tradition" to the outside world off of this forum. We look at OB and cringe but most people have no clue it was not offered that way.

I will even propose that keeping it original may limited your audience.

I am not trying to be difficult, just proposing a different view point.

[pschauss]

I have only had my boat for one season and she certainly would not win any awards for fashion but everywhere I went with her last summer people knew what she was. My favorite comment was from a guy waiting his turn at the gas dock in Oakdale who said to his companions: "Now there's a REAL boat."

[Waytooslow]

Not much has happened since I pulled motors. Got a couple hours in cleaning up the bilge, started modifying the beds and then work got crazy.
Its been work eat and bed.

Still time to come over to the dark side and hang a couple of OB's on that sweet ride!

[mike ohlstein]

she likes the boat next to it much better "It was a Searay!"

If you're one of the 'Never leave the dock, does it even have engines?' crowd, sure. There are plenty of boats that are better for hosting a BBQ.

But take both boats 60 miles offshore and have it turn a little snotty. Hell, take them 3 miles offshore and have it turn a little snotty. The Searay group will be crying for mommy while you glide home.

Functionality, form and usefulness are relative. If you're looking for a summer home on the water, the B31 isn't for you. But if you want the most seaworthy small boat ever built, well the the B31 is certainly in the conversation. Until I learn how to breath under water, I'd rather have a cramped BBQ than to capsize in the bay when 100 boats all take off at once after the 4th of July fireworks end.

Lotta people don't know what they're looking at or talking about. I had a friend who used to sell motorcycles. Guys would come in and ask which one was the fastest. "The red one" she would say. Lots of red bikes out there......

[captbone]

I agree with everything you said Mike.

However the offshore use crowd is shrinking and as you said most people have no clue. Hence why I believe it doesn’t matter if you put outboards on a “classic”. Most people will never know and the market is a niche anyway so I believe you should modify it to suit your needs and not worry about retaining the originality.

[Tony Meola]

Not sure I agree with the diminishing offshore crowd. Heck it is a lot larger than it was back in 1975 when we bought our 31.

When we use to spend the night in the Hudson Canyon, we would be maybe one of about 20 boats. Now there are a lot more than that.

The difference is we were the small inboard in the 70's, the rest were big Hats and Vikings and older wooden boats. Now they are 50 mph center consoles with outboards.

I still member when I saw my first 25 foot center consol out there. It was getting snotty and we were packing it in to beat it home and he was just showing up. We had a long wa ride home. I am glad I was not on his boat.

[Yannis]

We were brought up with ob’s.
However, I believe we (not Americans, or particularly seaworthy) could see the inconformity in an ob’d 31.

[Carl]

Still time to come over to the dark side and hang a couple of OB's on that sweet ride!

I think I'd put sails on it first...








Maybe that was a dig a little too deep???

nah


I like outboards...I think they are great, have one on my inflatable raft, still have another for a small boat we had upstate. The smell of a two stoke reminds me of fishing early in the morning when the mist held the exhaust at the docks at warm up.

I think small to midsize boats they are a great option, slender go fasts for sure...ski boats runabouts...all good.

Bigger boat, bigger outboards...and in multiples...I just don't see the pairing being made in heaven.

For years we talked about small blocks not being adequate power for the 31...now tossing a pair of outboards on is??
...and expecting them to last.
They seem to have a tough time lasting under normal conditions...now pushing a 31? Yes, I know lighter, but still pretty wide and deep...aka not EZ to push.

I guess one good thing with multiple outboards...you can have 2 motors go down and still get back. I heard it wasn't the best test ride taken...fast, handled well but burnt lots of fuel and limped home on remaining 3...and they were really happy the bow thruster worked well. Yeah...I'm sure it was just a bug to be worked out and they'll be fine.


And just to toss more on the fire. even if I wanted to put on outboards...I'd loose much of my slip potential. We have a bunch of 32' slips, then it jumps up to 40' slips which we do not have many, that is aside from the cost difference. Outboards add how many feet to a boat when raised?? on a bracket??