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thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » May 22nd, '07, 20:13

well i finally got my boat surveyed today ,all went great no issues,except when i gave hime the id number.i told him that the boat was a 1971 .but when he looked on the title the hull id num reads DLZL00080989.so is my hull a 89 or a 71 ???any help ...because it makes a big difference on insurance.......and i want some on it before i take it onto the road....

phil

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/ ... 0_3491.jpg

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 22nd, '07, 20:23

Based on the last two digits its an 89. But usually there is a 31 in the number. Are you pulling the number off the transom? I have a 75 and the number on the transom is BERG1467M75C-315 Tony Meola.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 22nd, '07, 20:23

Phil, probably a 71. The federal Safe Boating Act that took effect in Nov. of 72 required that the hull # be impressed in the upper part of the transom outside on the stb. side. Before that, all boats had a hull # wherever they wanted to put it. Most of our pre-11-72 boats had the hull # written in Marks-A-Lot in various places, mostly under the port v-berth on the inside hull side.

Plus, remember the B31 went out of regular production after the 1983 model year, there were no 84 and 85s, then the 23 Silvers made in 86, and that was it.

UV

thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » May 22nd, '07, 20:32

well thats what i have been told and thought ,that the numberes were applied on the stern after 1971.i have looked all over the boat before restoration for the number i could not find it no where i looked in the v-berth all over.in the stern ,,everywhere and nothing...so unless some one has ground down the numbers on the stern or i have a 71 71 bertram..

phil

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » May 22nd, '07, 20:36

Phil,

DLZL00080989 is not even a Bertram hull number. It's obvious that it was a number assigned by some bureaucratic agency when being registered by a former owner and no hull number could be found... See if you can track down who you bought the boat from & get some more info.

Br,

Patrick

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » May 22nd, '07, 20:52

If it in original condition try cleaning the heck out of the transom on the inside. Ours is a 77 and had a laminated hull number in the glass just below the deck height almost perfectly amidship. Never would have seen it if we weren't running the grinder over the funk in the lazzerette.

thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » May 22nd, '07, 21:00

is there anyway to trace it by the tx num at all????

phil

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 22nd, '07, 21:05

I've never found a hull number on AJ, alleged to be a 72 model. The tank tag says the tank was built in March of 72, and she has the 222 gallon tank, so that's good enough for me. Before 72 the tanks were 170 gallon.

UV

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » May 22nd, '07, 21:10

Phil,

If you have an old TX registration number, you could trace it back to what information TX has on file. Where did the DLZL number come from?

Br,

Patrick

thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » May 22nd, '07, 21:10

so what num did you put for id num.???or whats the hull id num you put on title??

phil

thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » May 22nd, '07, 21:12

that is whats on the title for the hull id num.it was already on the title.i have no clue capt.i will try and get ahold of the guy i bought it from and see if he can help me on it.i do know that he got it from florida,,when i have no idea..

phil

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » May 22nd, '07, 22:43

Phil...

I had a similar problem with my 33.. my hull number is BERH0683M81K-335-83. The surveyor said it was an '81 because the last 2 numbers in the main part of the number (before the K) were 81. The previous owner says it is an '83 because the very last two digits are 83. To make matters more confusing, my Certificate Of Documantation says she was completed in 1982. (As it turns out they all are sort of correct!)

I went round and round with people on the B33 forum, my surveyor, and even a couple of yacht brokerage owners I know.. no real answers were forthcoming.

Finally I went to Bertram Miami, and spoke with Don Flippen there. Here is the scoop about how Bertram numbered their hulls, as far as he is concerned.. (the following is cut and pasted from my string in the B33 forum)...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK everybody.. I finally spoke with Don Flippen of Bertram Miami. Here is the Bertram code for deciphering hull numbers.. assuming they are "normal".. which mine are not..

The hull number should be 12 characters..

Chars 1-3 is the manufacturer's name designation.. in our case "BER"

Char 4 is a letter which designates the boat length.. in our case H = 33' (for a 31' it is G)

Chars 5-8 are the manufacturer's "hull designation number".. Bertram's internal ID for the particular boat.

Char 9 is a letter designating the month the boat was completed (using A through L for the months of the year.. ie: Jan = A, Feb = B, etc)

Char 10 is a number, which is the last digit of the year of manufacture.. ie: my 1983 FBC, built in 1982, should have a 2 in space 10.

Chars 11-12 are the last 2 digits of the model year.

He does not understand my boat's number.. since there are letters used which are outside the A through L range, and more characters than there should be.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, after another call he went into the original Bertram files and produced a form called " Manufacturer's Statement of Origin To A Boat or Motor". This is a small yellow form which is sent to the receiving dealer when Bertram ships the boat from the factory. It states the boat year is 1983. While my actual number above does not fit the description Flippen gave me, here is what he told me he believes my hull number means..

The hull layup was begun in the factory 1981, hence the last two numbers in the body of the number being "81". The boat was completed in the factory in 1982, in fact the yellow "MSO" form states title to the boat was transferred to the dealer in Jax, FL, on Nov. 15, 1982. But.. the last two digits being "83" indicate that regardless of when the hull was laid up or completed, the boat is a model year 83.

You can read my string in the B33 forum by clicking on the following address...

http://www.bertram33.com/forum/topic.as ... ll+numbers

I hope all this helps!

glculp · Post by **glculp** » May 23rd, '07, 07:15

Try looking in the forward rope locker on the starboard side. Use a wet rag to dampen the area. You might also need a flashlight. Gail.

fred bortolan · Post by **fred bortolan** » May 23rd, '07, 16:40

when I took out my tank I found my #on the inside of the transom also anchor locker

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 23rd, '07, 21:17

IR guy

Not to argue your theory on the numbers and in the end who knows what they did, if you look at my hull no. that I posted above I don't follow the pattern. According to my Hull No. my boat was built in the 13 month. Someone at Bertram must of had a strange calendar. Tony Meola

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » May 24th, '07, 01:34

Tony...

You are correct in stating that there is not a clear format for hull numbers, and your numbers, as mine, do not exactly fit the Bertram format Don Flippen gave me. I think what he gave me and I posted was the basic format used in the latter years of our boats life cycles, but especially in the earlier years Bertram made several modifications, for reasons that have been forgotten long ago. If anyone has a question about the year of their boat I think a call to Bertram and a request for the MSO would clear that up. I don't know how far back their MSO files go, but he produced mine fairly quickly.

MikeD@Lightningshack · Post by **MikeD@Lightningshack** » May 24th, '07, 08:00

On my 69 31' FB, (after 7 years of ownership) I found the number on a tag the was glassed into the transom, at the very base on the inside of the boat.

Basically as close as you can get to the keel at the transom inside the boat. Right behind aft bilge pump.

The label appeared to be on a paper like 4"x4" label that was glassed into the boat. It was painted over, and I only found it while doing some sanding and grinding while prepping the bilge for paint.

I painted back over it, as no one would ever be able to see it in such an inconvenient spot. Plus it is a way for me to identify the boat should I ever need to.

MikeD
www.lightningshack.com

Peter · Post by **Peter** » May 24th, '07, 09:12

The hull ID number would start with BER if it were a hull started after 72.

The DLZ number is an assigned number after the fact by a state (probably) agency. In this case the last digits do not represent the year of manufacture.

Example my '66 20 Moppie had a number beginning with MSZ (Originally MA registry) and ending with 292.

Your boat is a '71 or earlier. If you can track down the agency that assigned the number, probably identified by DLZ, you may find more information, but it would only be as reliable as whatever the owner of the time told that agency.

I think additional confusion might exist because of several significant dates in a new boats life:

The date the hull construction began
The date the vessle manufacture was completed
The date the vessle ownership transferred for the firs time (to a dealer or new owner)
The date the vessle was first registered.

Example. UV's AJ may be a hull that was started in '71, but fitted out and completed in early 72. The hull alone predates the HIN requierment date, but the vessle is still a '72 in all other respects.

Peter

keysdisease · Post by **keysdisease** » May 24th, '07, 10:59

Here are two sites I find useful.

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.htm

Good explanation of the HIN system

and

http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic_database.htm

Coastie HIN searchable database. In this case DLZ indicates a homemade boat in Delaware.

Steve

bertram31.com

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