Hi..and questions on 1963 B25 Express

[TechieTechie]

Hi All,

I am a first time boat-owner-to-be who lives in the greater Boston area. I grew up on my grandfather's Lymans on Catawba Island (southern Lake Erie Shoreline). I have been searching for the better part of a year, and thought I found the perfect early 1980s Tiara, but I'm running into some issues trying to close the deal (seller keeps slowing things up). And I learned about the smaller Bertrams (and that they can be fairly fuel efficient, which was a big concern on a dual crusader 2700 Open) and am now interested in picking up a vintage 25 Bahia Mar or Express (no need for the flybridge and gotta have an enclosed head).

The Express appeals to me as it reminds me a LOT of Lyman's 1968-72 26 foot express cruiser, but without the hassle of a wood hull.

So, my question to the collective group is this: Is anyone familiar with either of these boats:

A. '63 25 express that is for sale in SC? https://www.popyachts.com/express-cruis ... ina-127985. Little concerned about the not-quite finished look on some of the renovations (the open electrical outlet in the head, for example) and some low hanging wires..as well as the hours on the engine and the poor window caulking. But the rest of the hull looks to be in decent shape. And, the price is such that if the engines go, I could drop in a single screw without completely blowing my budget (I didn't want to exceed 20k).

B. There is another one for sale, a '62 in NC. I believe it's the same boat that was listed on THT a few years ago (which has a treasure trove of pics). But I am very concerned about the foam under the gas tanks and, if I am reading THT pics right, the 2k hours on the engines. And allocating 10k in for a new single screw would blow ze budget.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1962/B ... ted-States
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boat-comme ... 995-a.html

Am I right to be concerned? Or is my budget too small to be looking at a smaller Bertram? Due to my work schedule, I have to assume I can do little to no work on the boats myself.

Or, if anyone knows of an older, well maintained 25/26 Bahia Mar or Express (particularly fresh water, willing to travel for the right boat), I would love to hear from you.

Thanks much,

Techie

PS...love the site, I feel much better buying an old boat when I know there are resources to reach out to!

[CamB25]

Welcome aboard!

I'm not familiar with those boats, but I think you can assume that they are not "runners". Will require deep pockets if you cannot do the work yourself. $20k seems like a lot of money until you start buying boat parts. Then it seems like a down payment! Ha!

Find a good runner!

[Tony Meola]

Outside of the engines looking rough the one in SC looks clean from the pics. 2300 hours on gas engines does not leave a lot of life in them.

The 25 is probably the best riding 25 footer around.

I would take a look and always hire s good surveyor before you buy.

$20,000 in this market for a 25 is high. If it does not run the hull is probably worth $5,000 at the most.

Good luck in your search.

[MarkS]

First hand knowledge of a plan to stay around $20,000 was NOT even close to where I ended up and like Cam said, find a good runner pay a good surveyor, someone familiar with Bertram’s. The hull is so thick often moisture testing is not possible for those who have never surveyed a real boat! My transom required a complete inner skin removal and redo and the surveyor I hired from Cape Cod told me everything was solid. I won’t drop names but the guy shouldn’t be allowed to survey Bayliners.

[TechieTechie]

Thanks all.

If you happen to run across a B25 Express or Bahia Mar, I'm all ears.

Opened my search to Seacraft 25 Seafari too. What is it with me and rare old boats. I wish I didn't like 'em, but I do!

[Bruce]

Market is high in the used almost anything now. Good economies and spendable cash does that.

29 years in the boat business and my advice to customers was don't buy less cause the price on what you want does come down at some point. Putting money in repairs (all used boats) into something you don't really want is a waste and when prices cycle that repair money could have been put toward what you had wanted.

At one point in time not to long ago, a 31 gas could be had running for 15k.

[TechieTechie]

Thanks all. I will just keep on lookin'

Jen

[Charlie J]

another great boat is the 24 topaz
if I got back in the game I would look for the cc 24 topaz
sorry guys

[Tony Meola]

another great boat is the 24 topaz
if I got back in the game I would look for the cc 24 topaz
sorry guys

My friend has one. Nice boat to fish in, but the 25 Bert probably gives you better performance. You need to be happy with an 18 knot boat with a Topaz so it is whatever floats your boat.

Also the old 24 Northcoast was built from the 24 Topaz hull.

Not sure you can access this link, but if you can it is the NJ Fisherman and there is a 25 for sale listed.

http://www.thefisherman.com/viewdigital.cfm?DGID=1049

Don't know the boat so can't help you there.

[TechieTechie]

Thank you all. I did check out the B25, and it's not a Bahia Mar, so it won't work for me.

Thank you for the reminders on the Topaz and the Phoenix....I forgot about them. In the hunt

[TechieTechie]

Hi All, well, it's been a few months. I was finally able to see a '67 23 express cruiser locally, and I do like the layout. It's a hot mess, but the SC 25 has lowered the price considerably, so I might be able to pick it up for around $5k.

Couple of questions,

1. Is there any difference between the MKi and MKii hull design? I have the power sheets for 1970 (which I think is the MKii design) and want to make sure they are still applicable. Didn't think so, but I wanted to double check.
2. For those individuals who repowered with a single 300+ HP i/o, have you been able to get rid of the engine box (or small enough you can put a bench seat across the transom)? That is my only gripe about this boat. (the nice thing about the 80s SeaRay Amberjack 255 is that it has a 22 degree deadrise and a 7.1 can fit under the deck...but the build quality is not nearly as good)). I know others have repowered with outboards, but I just can't do it. But I want to know how much smaller a the engine box would be with a single.
3. Anyone know if there is more deck space on a 25 Bahia Mar and a 25 Express Cruiser? And, same question around the i/o.

PS...if anyone wants a project late 60s 25 express cruiser (the yard is basically wiling to give it away) let me know, I can send you pics.

Thanks much

Jen

[Lars]

2. For those individuals who repowered with a single 300+ HP i/o, have you been able to get rid of the engine box (or small enough you can put a bench seat across the transom)? That is my only gripe about this boat. (the nice thing about the 80s SeaRay Amberjack 255 is that it has a 22 degree deadrise and a 7.1 can fit under the deck...but the build quality is not nearly as good)). I know others have repowered with outboards, but I just can't do it. But I want to know how much smaller a the engine box would be with a single.

A picture of a friend's conversion to single V8 in a B25. Not a great pic for the overview, but it gives you a glimpse of the deck and transom so you get the general idea.
The box can be made much smaller and not very tall, but it isn't going to disappear..

[CamB25]

https://baltimore.craigslist.org/boa/d/ ... 94935.html

[Tommy]

Techie, the Bahia Mar 25 that Cam posted at $6500 looks to be a whole lot better value over the Express 25 at around $20K.

[TechieTechie]

Thanks all....I had noticed the Baltimore Bahia when searching this weekend.

The SC boat is down to $8k, so both the Express and the Bahia Mar are pretty much at the same price point (the SC boat includes a trailer). The Bahia Mar engines have a lot fewer hours, but it looks like they are still running a TRS type (transmission). The SC boat engines have more hours, but mated to Merc Alpha 1s. And, I actually like the cabin of the Express better...I love the light and the glass, even though I know it might be a bit more top heavy. That's why I wanted to know the deck space..if the Bahia has more deck space, then maybe I can live with a darker cabin.

Before I jump on planes, does anyone here have a B25 express or a 25 Bahia Mar? I would love some specific measurements.

Thanks Lars, for the pic of the engine revamp. It helps

[John Swick]

I have a 1966 B25 Bahia Mar that we repowered about 10yrs ago to a single 8.1L Volvo 375hp w/a duoprop o/d.
One of the best runabouts I've owned.
Ask away.
I have no experience or knowledge of the express model.

[TechieTechie]

I have a 1966 B25 Bahia Mar that we repowered about 10yrs ago to a single 8.1L Volvo 375hp w/a duoprop o/d.
One of the best runabouts I've owned.
Ask away.
I have no experience or knowledge of the express model.

Hi John, Happy New Year! Apologies for the delay, had a different family member in the hospital in Nov, seems like life is just now getting back to normal.

These are the measurements I try to take on all my viewed boats (so that I don't mix them up). If you can get any/all of them,that would be great. Inches preferred for us Yankees

1. Vberth: Length (apex to center), width (starboard to port at widest).
2. Height in Cabin (floor to ceiling)
3. Height above vberth
4. Galley dimensions (width and depth)...and can it handle a fridge?
5. Head dimensions (door entrance width, plus head compartment itself width, length, height to ceiling)
6. Berth entrance dimension (width)
7. Helm dimensions (wheel to front of captain's chair)
8. Windsheild Height (floor at captains chair to top of windshield...I am only 5'5" so on 00% of boats, the windshield frame is directly in my line of sight).
9. Deck Dimensions (width plus 2 measurements, rear of captain's chair to front of engine box, and rear of captains chair to transom

Thanks much!!!

Jen


Also, what's your fuel burn?

[John Swick]

Hi, an Happy New Year.
My B25 Bahia Mar is away in a storage building for the winter so accessibility is not great right now to get actual measures.
In the meantime, I can advise that in relative terms (I'm 6'3" 260lbs):
1. My 5yr old and 8 yr old often take naps in the v berths on the way to and from our camp.
I don't think I could do that comfortably.
2. I can stand up in the cabin comfortably without my head touching the headliner.
3. Clearance is good at the foot of the v berths, lessens as you go forward.
4. Our's has the typical sized ice box that could be replaced with a small fridge.
There is a small sink and no stove or cooktop.
5. I can comfortably get into/out of, stand and sit in the head.
6. There's the rub for me.
I have to turn sideways to get into and out of the cabin and regularly hit my head on the top hatch opening.
My wife (a slender 5'9") doesn't have that problem.
7. We upgraded the helm to pods/pedestal seats.
8. The top of the windshield frame is not in my line of sight when I'm standing at the helm.
9. Our upgraded seating configuration is fibreglass pods with back to back pedestals mounted ontop.
There's room to walk around side to side, fore and aft as long as all gear (coolers, luggage, water toys, beach chairs, etc) is stored in the cabin.
We consider the B25 Bahia Mar my wife's boat, and is her primary transportation to our island/camp.
She loves the cabin for the accessiblility of dry space for storage, and a change room/washroom on route or when we do day trips.
I've never been onboard a B25 express cruiser, but if the cabin space is bigger yet, then cockpit space would be even smaller.
Not really sure what the fuel burn is(?).
With the upgraded power, our cruising speed range is between 2500rpm and 3000rpm, so it can't be that bad.
Hope this helps for now.
BR
John

[John Swick]

http://www.westwindyachtscanada.com/p25660a.htm

And because you're American you get an automatic 30% discount on the price!

[TechieTechie]

John, thank you for the responses (and the link). This was the exact boat I was looking at and wondered how it compared to (deck v cabin space) versus the Express. I looked up the build/power sheets from the 60s and the Bahia and Express have virtually the same weight, beam, length and COG. So, for me, it really comes down to the difference in the deck dimensions versus the cabin....which is why I wanted the specific measurements on your boat (I have them from an express)...since I cannot compare them side by side. Argh.

I am a bit concerned, though, the interior on this boat looks a bit rough. With a lower price point, I'd rather have a well taken care of interior/exterior and tired engines, because I'd like a single. Since I don't go to the Canyons, I'm fine with a single and an EPIRB . Less maintenance. But a HUGE plus if it's been a sweetwater boat all it's life. Oh, if I could only get a Limestone in a 26 foot length. Yum.

I noticed your location is Georgian Bay. Any chance that you have you seen this boat ? Fat chance, I know, but I thought it never hurt to ask.

[John Swick]

Hi,

That boat is located at my marina.
I've met an spoken with the owner a number of times.
All the expensive stuff has been done to that boat (repower, rewired, tanks, head,etc).
The cabin décor is original, so with alittle lipstick an rouge.......
If I didn't already have 'afew' 20's and 25's it would be mine.

You can still get a 26' Limestone, but it would be a custom build, so minimum 6mons wait and $150,000USD.

Good luck.
John

[TechieTechie]

Hi John,

Thank you for the response. Hmm, maybe I'll have to book a weekend to Toronto, with a sidetrip to Georgian Bay thrown in. I just wish it had a single!!!! If I head up there, any chance you want to join me? I'm relatively new to Bertrams, don't know quite what to look for.

Thanks much,

Jen

[John Swick]

No worries.
You get to Toronto.
I'll get you to the boat an back.

[TechieTechie]

Hi,

That boat is located at my marina.
I've met an spoken with the owner a number of times.
All the expensive stuff has been done to that boat (repower, rewired, tanks, head,etc).
The cabin décor is original, so with alittle lipstick an rouge.......
If I didn't already have 'afew' 20's and 25's it would be mine.

You can still get a 26' Limestone, but it would be a custom build, so minimum 6mons wait and $150,000USD.

Good luck.
John

John, thank you for this.....of course, like an idiot, I put a deposit on a 28 DE that I'd had my eye on...only to find out last week the hull was wetter than the Atlantic.

So I'm back looking at boats (and this fine specimen is under contract). If anyone knows of a solid b25 or b26 (with separate head) or B28 sportsman (no tower) please do let me know. Otherwise, I'm buying a rowboat!