Emblems and eagles for 1963 Moppie Sport Convertible

[cmass494]

New to the site and Bertram. Not sure if it’s ok to ask about the 25’s, but I’m restoring a 1963 Bertram Moppie 25’ Sport convertible and was wondering if anyone can list what emblems and eagles my Bertram would have had? Pictures of them for that year would be helpful. Need to try and find them, but can’t find a resource of what was original for 1963. Saw the old posts for the name plates and will try High Tide to see if they have any. Open to other suggestions on finding parts. Thanks!

[Dug]

Of course you are welcome to ask on 25’s!

You got it on High Tide!

Good luck!

Dug

[cmass494]

Thanks! Excited to finally get her in the water this spring. Final touches now! Will post pics of Boat when done.

PS on original post. Any pics or description on location of emblems or eagles will be a big help.

[Tony Meola]

Welcome

You will find a number of 25 owners on here. In fact from time to time we even let one or two Hatteras owners chime in.

Please ask away. You might find a member that might have an emblem or two they are willing to give up, but Danny at High Tide would be the go to guy. I also believe there is an outfit in Australia that sells emblems but I do not remember their name.

[DanielM]

I had a B25 about 17 years ago. Looking back at some old pictures it had the Bertram Eagle logo on the hatch cover going into the v-berth and a Bertram Eagle logo on the back of the cabinetry on the port side. It was on the back of the cabinet near the cockpit. There was “BERTRAM 25 on the side of the hull where the windshield is mounted. I don’t have any pictures of the sides of the fly bridge but I don’t recall any emblems there.

I haven’t posted pictures in awhile so I’m not up on how to do it, but if you’ll PM me an email I can send you a couple.

Danny

[cmass494]

Got my emblems from Danny at High Tide and have finally put the boat in! Thought I would share some photos of the Moppie!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/slWHNyqWmxtxRY8P2

I still have a few things to do. I had to shift more weight up front and will probably need to raise the OB up another hole. It’s splashing straight up when you first take off. Once you trim up and on plane, the splashing stops. Does that sound right to you all? I have a 2001 Yamaha 250 OX66 two stroke on her. She runs nice and right now hits about 38 MPH at WOT and cruises at about 28 MPH. Burns a good amount of gas and oil, but think that will improve with raising the OB, tuning her up and redistributing the weight. With a full boat and people sitting in back it takes a lot to get her on plane.

Also need to figure out how to make the scupper holes self bailing. When you have a few people in the back the water wants to fill right in and makes for a wet deck. My scupper holes sit about 4” up from waterline. With the angle of the chine and my swim platform brackets sitting right next to the holes, I can’t figure out how to do a self bailing cover. I also don’t want to block the holes completely. Suggestions??

I got her from a guy in Rhode Island that did most of the heavy lifting by converting to an OB bracket and painting the hull in Awlgrip Awlcraft 2000 paint. I added the mahogany swim platform, custom fabricated SS swim platform brackets, mahogany cabinets, bench seats, helm seat and windlass anchor. All custom built and fit by me my family over the winter. Actually recreated the interior of my old wood 1967 Thompson 21’ Offshore Camper Boat.

Should be a great summer!

Thanks!

Chris

[Yannis]

Chris,

This boat can easily make the “navette” in Monaco between any superyacht and the pier!
I dont know why, but she reminds me of those old Riva tenders...
I particularly like the mahogany sole and its seamless joints...
From the last pics I see that she was already in a very good shape, even before you started playing with her!
I cannot locate any scuppers though, are they somewhere and I missed them?
One point...that beautiful swim platform should become very slippery when whet, you might want to consider adding some sort of antiskid paint or strips because if anyone jumps on it while wet...you can perhaps imagine the rest.
Show us some cabin!
Enjoy your summer with this beautiful boat!

[CamB25]

This is great! Thanks for sharing the photos!

Weight - she is too light in the stern, at least in the empty pictures. You want those chines in the water. I would not add weight to the bow just yet...
Trim tabs? - I don't see any in the photos. Wayne Willard from Hunt Yachts (worked with the "man" back in the day) said these are a must for the 25.
Splashing straight up? - not sure, but I bet she is squatting on initial takeoff. More weight aft might help? Different prop? tabs? Your bracket appears to be high enough on the transom...maybe raising motor will help.
Self- bailing? - rebuild the deck. Other than that, I would use removable plugs. I use them all the time on my Scout without issue. The drain holes are so small on the Bert that having them open will not save your day.

Cap't Bone might have good ideas for you!

Great boat! Have fun!

[neil]

On our 25 we have the removable plugs like cam said ,very nice job that you have done

[cmass494]

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions! I’ll have to post some more photos of current state with regards to weight. The photos you see are actually how I originally had it when I put her in the water with more weight in the back. I’ve actually shifted the weight more to the bow to try and help get her on plane and keep the scuppers out of the water. If the chines are below the waterline then the scuppers will be below the waterline as well and the water will flow in. This might be what the boat needs. If you look at all my pictures one of them is a video and shows what the splashing looks like. Moving the weight forward did help with getting her on plane and prevents the bow from raising so high when you give throttle. Maybe I have to take it all out and start again. No trim tabs on her and I will show some shots of the scuppers.

As for the swim platform Non-Skid, it’s hard to tell, but it actually has a non-skid surface on it. I used salt on the last coat of varnish before it dried to create craters. Once it dried I washed and dissolved the salt away and left a nice rough surface. So far it has done the trick even when wet.

I’ll post some more photos when I can get out on her.

Chris

[CamB25]

That's a great non-skid technique! And, it's All Natural!

It's a deep v...need to load the weigh aft, not forward. Scot has a good quote from the Hunt folks on this.

Separate the scupper issue from the planning issue...the two are unrelated.

[cmass494]

I added a few more photos of my chine at rest: https://photos.app.goo.gl/slWHNyqWmxtxRY8P2

Pretty close to waterline. I have weight distributed all along the keel with most sitting aft behind the fuel tank, with stacked steel plates, two batteries and two other battery boxes filled with concrete all about 2-3ft off transom. I have Steel plates forward of fuel tank, as well as, sand bags under cabin floor. I will play with shifting it all around to try and get maximum efficiency and balance.

I also included the scupper fix I tried this morning. It’s a nylon barbed hose connection with a homemade duck bill scupper made from an old bike tube. Fit nice and snug in hole and seems to be working, but haven’t tested her while underway. With the scupper hole submerged the water didn’t come flowing back in, but if I dump a bucket of water on deck it flows right out. Fingers crossed she holds underway.

I don’t have too many cabin photos as I haven’t done too much except cushions, wall and ceiling padding, lighting and anchor locker for windlass. More temporary. Hope to make her much nicer down the road with some more Mahogany accents. I also have to tackle the dash and windshield as those are still unfinished and showing their age. Another winter project to see how to fix and paint the aluminum windshield. Just want to enjoy her this summer!
Thanks! Chris

[CamB25]

Very creative with the duck bill scupper fix!

Your experience is convincing me to go ahead with trim tabs now. I was think I would wait, but I'm likely to have similar issues. My outboard is on a 10" jackplate, so I'm 20" or so closer to the hull than you, and I have much more weight aft. But...I haven't put the boat in the water to see how she floats.

I'm thinking about installing tabs along the transom bump out rather than in the tight area outboard to the hard chines. Easier install, large tabs, less interference with boarding ladder, etc. I'll lose some effectiveness with port/stbd balance correction, but life is a compromise.

Amateur thoughts/guesses: The CG of the original I/O model is about 10' forward of the transom. With 500 lbs or so 30" aft of the transom in place of 800 - 1000 lbs on the transom, your cg has probably moved forward quite a bit(assuming the original tank), thus your chines are way out of the water Adding weight forward will only make this worse. To get on plane, you need to be riding up on the aft part of the V. With the CG forward, the engine thrust is pivoting the boat aft, burying the stern of the boat until it can generate enough forward motion to produce lift, thus the spray, bow to the sky running attitude. It's nose heavy, so this lift process is more difficult. With your helm forward, it's even worse. This was one reason I went to a CC configuration with the outboard...I moved the helm aft. Try adding 1000 lbs on the deck, just aft of the 10ft point.

years ago on the old B25 site, we had a long thesis on this. Scot may still have the calculations.

Is your cavitation plate in the right position on plane?

[Yannis]

Chris,

Is this what you did onto your swim platform, only with salt?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g4_x6o ... ture=share

[cmass494]

Similar, but the salt is not permanent or remain like the sand would be. The salt technique is for when you want to preserve the look of the wood and not paint. If you are going to paint then you can use any addative.
I put 3 coats of clear epoxy on the Mahogany, then 3 coats of varnish. On the last coat of varnish, after it tacks up and starts to dry, you put sea salt on it so it just sits on top and doesn’t soak into the varnish. This way once the varnish dries completely you wash the salt away from the surphace and all that is left are the divots made from the salt. It makes it less slippery than just gloss varnish. Take a look at the link above for my photos. I have some shots of this. Hope this helps!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/slWHNyqWmxtxRY8P2

[Yannis]

Interesting!

I understand that the contour which is not “seasoned” has one layer of varnish less than the rest.
Othersise you wouldn't be able to remove the tape, right?
Thanks.

[cmass494]

Correct that layer under the tape would not have 3 coats of varnish. After you put the salt on, then you remove the tape. I used Interlux Schooner gold varnish to get a heavier coat with fewer layers. My epoxy was really my build up and seal coats and the varnish was my UV sun coat. Hope it will last! If not, then next season I will do more varnish coats. I also made a cover for my swim platform to protect from the sun while at marina. Should help.

[cmass494]

I took the boat out today and my scuppers seem to be holding and doing the trick! One project down and a few more to go.

[cmass494]

Bad news on my front! Looks like my outboard has a bad piston. So after all the work on the Bertram, I run into a major issue with the OB. It wasn't holding speed while on plane. It would just start decelerating. I had my mechanic look at it and of course one of my cylinders is not firing and when he scoped it he found part of the piston top was missing and broken off. Such tough news!! Trust me I'm sick to my stomach. Trying to decide on rebuilding, getting a new Powerhead, finding another used OB or maybe even biting the bullet and getting a new OB (4-stroke). I currently have a 2001 Yamaha OX66 250hp two stroke. Looking for a 300hp or 250hp. Not sure if it was because my 250 wasn’t performing at full power, but it seemed under powered when you had a few people in the boat. Would a 4 stroke 250hp be enough power with 8 people on the boat? Or should I go with a 300hp? Open to suggestions. I scoured the site and see a wide spectrum of OB options. Oh well the work continues!

[CamB25]

Sounds like you found your time to plane problem!

[cmass494]

Just ordered a 300hp Suzuki four stroke. Should have her up and running again in a couple of weeks. Now to figure out prop size. Open to suggestions. More pic and running data to come.

[cmass494]

So the new Suzuki 300hp is on and the boat is running great. She pushes her so well and more than enough power. I’ve added some new photos and videos on my Google album. Here is the link again:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/slWHNyqWmxtxRY8P2

Here are also some performance numbers:
100 gal fuel - 4ppl about 650 lbs and using a 3x16x17 Suzuki prop
- Cruise - 4300rmps and 27mph burning about 11.2 gal/hr
- Hole shot - 9.8 seconds to plane
- WOT - 45mph
When it was just one person got to 6250 RPMs and 47.1mph at about 70% trim. I tried a 4 blade prop (4x15.25x18) and it was almost exactly the same performance, but it would cause more vibrations and a whooping sound at cruise speeds.

Don’t think I need trim tabs as she gets up on plane fast. I will see when I have a bunch of guys out on her. With the OB’s extra weight I think she sits just right in the water. My chines fall just below the waterline. I ended taking out most of the ballast I had up front to shift more weight aft. I’m still learning about the boat and how she handles. She pounds a little in chop at higher speeds, but if I keep her bow up and slow her down to about 30mph, then she slices right through the chop. Much more comfortable ride and my wife is happy. Reverse on the boat isn’t very good! With the OB bracket and full transom, it takes a lot to get her to turn on a dime. Makes it a little tough to back her into our slip. We are getting better at it the more we use her and understand her limits. I also took the kids tubing and it pulled them without any issue. So far she is exceeding my expectations!

Open to any other tricks on how to best control a Bertram with an OB bracket. Thanks Chris!

[Yannis]

Niiiiice!

[ktm_2000]

Your performance numbers with the zuki 300 are promising to me and my project.

I would have hoped for a little lower rpm (4300/6300 = 68%) and closer to 10gph cruise, but the numbers you are seeing with a loaded boat are definitely within reasonable range.

What are your speed/fuel burn #s when you are running @4000 rpm?

[cmass494]

Took her out this evening and she ran about 9.8 gal/hr at 4000rpms, but she tended to just fall off plane. The lowest I can go is about 4100 rpm at 26mph and 10.5 gal/hr. This is with a full tank of gas (100gal), 2 adults and one kid.

[ktm_2000]

that is interesting that the boat doesn't want to stay on plane at 26mph.

for example, my b25 with twin 3.0L mercruisers at 135 hp a side with 15x17 pitch props, with one motor shut down and trimmed up I could get the boat on plane (the motor didn't like it in any way) and do 16-17 kts.

I realize I was probably propped too low because I could hit 5400rpm at WOT and the motors should have been propped for 4800 rpm. I'm guessing that I could have run 14.5x21 props and been at 4600 rpm WOT.

With this combo, I cruised at 3600 rpm at 22-23kts, 4200 rpm got me 27kts, I could stay on plane as low as 15 kts

I'm wondering what the torque curve of the zuki 300 is that it doesn't have the power to keep the boat on plane under 4000 rpm but has plenty of power and does well above that RPM?

or maybe that it doesn't have enough prop area to take advantage of the power the motor does have so there is a lot of slippage?

Didn't you state that you also tried a 4 blade prop and there was cavitation? was that due to more diameter of the prop or the 4 blades?

[ktm_2000]

btw, I've had my heart set on the combo you've got set up for a long time.

Most of my runs are at least 20+ miles one way and the combo I really want is 24+ kts cruise at the lowest GPH possible. I really don't care about WOT but would like to retain the boat's ability to still run 15-18kts when it gets ugly out there.

I'm guessing the motor makes more than enough power but for my use case and a different prop would get me what I want.

[CamB25]

Sounds like the motor might be too high in the water. The 300 should have plenty of guts to plane off well below 20.

[ktm_2000]

here's a pic at about 15kts, I was running with a buddy boat, taking pics of his ride at the same time.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/oyZAUMuMmX3feeoC6

the low speed on plane feature of our boats is one of the things I really love, when it gets ugly it is NP for the bertram.

[cmass494]

She is still on plane at about 3600-4000rpms, but she starts to lose rpms and decelerate slowly that eventually she falls off plane at about 3500 rpm. She also rides bow high at these rpms. I usually need about 3/4 throttle to get her up on plane and then back her off to 4000rpm. It would be great to get her to stay on plane at a lower speed, especially when there is a lot of chop. Stops the pounding. As for engine height I was thinking I was too low as she splashes up when I first accelerate, but wondering if I’m too high to get more lift at a slower speed. Or a different size prop? I was also wondering if it’s typical to have to trim all the way up to 70% in order to get my WOT of 46mph. That was another reason I thought the ob was too low. Thoughts?? Thanks for the help figuring this out. I’m used to a very light wood lapstrake boat that was so different to this boat.

[ktm_2000]

do you have mechanical controls? is there any throttle creep? I had a yammi that the friction screw was too loose on the shifter and the throttle would back down on its own

[cmass494]

Electric drive by wire shifter so not from that.