Hatch drains

[Donmystic1]

All of the hatches on the rear deck of my 1986 28 flybridge have drains.
Presently they have no hoses on them.
As I recalled on my past 28's the drains had hoses attached to them and the hoses went to overboard drains.
Does anyone have a hose configuration to run the hoses overboard or do they just drain into the bilge?

[Yannis]

Overboard? This defeats all laws of physics!
Mine have 5 cm copper tubes glassed in, that SHOULD be connected to hoses, but...even with or without hoses the result is the same. Water goes to the aft bilge pump and sent out...easy!
This is when you move, when you are docked water goes to the pump next to the cabin bulkhead and is sput out too !
Whatever you do, deck water needs a pump, you might as well do nothing with hoses, just make sure you got two pumps, one aft, one fwd.

[David Davidson]

All my hatches have good seals and drain into shower sump boxes (3 boxes in total). I always like to keep my bilges as dry as possible.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SEAFLO-Boat-Ma ... 1582097097

David.

[Donmystic1]

That is a good idea Dave.
I also like to keep the bilge as dry as possible

[Yannis]

Good seals are irrelevant. The water doesnt get in from the hatch seal, it gets in from the drain which is in the gutter around it.
Also, try shower on the deck or better yet, hose the deck down or have a live wave get in , those sumps are too small to handle, youll end up with water in your bilge.
With two pumps youll have very little water in the bilge.

[David Davidson]

Thanks for the advice Yannis.
I have tested them with a hose wash down, and so far so good. No water in the bilges (I have 4 bilges now). I guess it may depend on how good your seals/latches are installed, and how the drainage is set up.
I have blocked up the overflow drain from the boxes. That may have helped.
So far, mine is working as designed.

David

[Yannis]

David, I’m glad you’re sucessful in this difficult (indeed) task of keeping water out of a Bertram bilge!

Keep in mind, though, that your boat is a 31, you have significantly more space underneath to add sump pumps and the like. Your deck, also, is completely different.
The 28’s deck is one piece, which IF you have not sealed all around (so that it is easier to remove for all sorts of inspections) then any sealing of the hatches, or adding hoses and sump pumps, will not keep your bilge dry. The water will just filter through the perimeter of the deck, more so in its aftmost section.

Now, if you indeed install sump pumps in the 28’s bilge, the following will occur:
First, there will be no room left for any fresh water tanks. Or anything else for that matter (fishboxes, saddle tanks, etc).
Second, in the event of a blocked pump or broken hose, you either have to literally lift the WHOLE deck and proceed to repairing, which for a silicone sealed deck it is a task that only convicts are usually assigned to....OR, you will need an educated monkey to reach what cannot be reached by a normal size human,through the hatches.
Third, and last, its the principle of simplicity. I consider you need at least 3 main bilge pumps in a 28. Two under the deck (one aft and one forward) and one in the cabin. With 3 over the waterline throughhulls. Add to these your 3 sumps, plus at least another 1 new throughhull (as you cannot probably link all 3 sumps to the existing ones), you’re in for an entertaining weekend trying to find, and eventually fixing, what went wrong when your bilge will be wet. Too complicated.

Add your head, your shower drain if you have one, your fresh water pump, your raw water pump...hell, this is not a boat, it’s the Spaceshuttle in its most advanced variant.

However, if this is what floats your boat, then this choice of yours is worthwile, since it makes you happy.

[Kevin]

I recall a post from many years ago about having the 5 hatch drains routed to the exhaust. I do not recall if it worked or not. My to do list is those darn hatches that just run into bilge. I have lots of fiberglass in my exhaust so I thought about running a drain into the exhaust that terminates at the transome from inside the exhaust. I imagine you would have to get it right due to pressure but I think it might be doable since my exhaust is 5 inch.......more than I need for the power I make. It would only be about a one foot run inside the exhaust to the end of the pipe and no additional holes in the hull. Not sure if soot would be an issue. Again, the design would have to be implemented correctly.

[SteveM]

I have tubes on my hatches as well. But the diameter is not very large, they are susceptible to clogging. It would be interesting to put a video camera below to see if they work properly.

Placing a canvas cover over the cockpit while the boat is at rest will dramatically reduced the amount of rain water going in all the wrong places.

One of my neighbors has a wood boat, and he described some sort of bilge pump arrangement he put in his boat to keep it dry using a small intake tube. Most boats with bilge pumps with float switches still have a couple inches of water resting in the hull. He said he eliminates this with his setup. I'll see if I can find out what he's doing.

[Yannis]

He said he eliminates this with his setup

Yes, this is the second pump you may consider putting in the same fwd section of your 28 bilge, between the engines, together with the high debit bilge pump mentioned previously, where the water accumulates when the boat is at rest.
I had one "whale gulper" model attached to a 50 cm run of intake hose with a mesh at the end; this latter resting at the lowest point. Activated not by a float switch but manually by a switch in the panel, it could suck up most (still not 100%) of the remaining water left by the other float switch pumps.

I have tubes on my hatches as well. But the diameter is not very large, they are susceptible to clogging.

Same here, at one point I removed the vertical fixed copper tubes that were glassed-in the gutters of the hatches and put new wider ones in, that were more difficult to clog. To these, one has to connect the appropriate wider hoses. Still, there is no solution to what the water will do once found in the bilge, because, if it is for the main two (or more) pumps to activate and dispose of it, then what's the point of attaching the hoses?
The only two solutions described (for a dryer bilge) are those with the extra 3 sump pumps (which imho are too complicated and take up a lot of space, especially in a 28), and the connection to the exhaust, which I like as an idea because it does not require extra pumps, as water escapes with gravity, only someone has to explain if it's doable and safe.

[JH_B28]

I recall a post from many years ago about having the 5 hatch drains routed to the exhaust. I do not recall if it worked or not. My to do list is those darn hatches that just run into bilge. I have lots of fiberglass in my exhaust so I thought about running a drain into the exhaust that terminates at the transome from inside the exhaust. I imagine you would have to get it right due to pressure but I think it might be doable since my exhaust is 5 inch.......more than I need for the power I make. It would only be about a one foot run inside the exhaust to the end of the pipe and no additional holes in the hull. Not sure if soot would be an issue. Again, the design would have to be implemented correctly.

I am doing the same as Kevin mentioned. I re-did my rear deck and made two large hatches for fish boxes. All the gutters where made as per capt Pat's recommendations and have two drains in each gutter. I plumbed the drains with PVC and will connect to exhaust with flexible hose. I made custom exhausts, each with a dedicated outlet for all drains. There will be two 1.5" pvc pipes on each side of the hull that will connect to these outlets and every necessary drain will be T'd to them.

I have to admit that it has been difficult to get the gutter drains connected to the exhaust outlet because there is very little difference in height between the gutter drain and the outlet. I had to adjust the invert level on the gutter drain to the highest possible in order to get sufficient slope for the water to drain. I am also connecting the gutter drains for my one-piece engine hatch (thanks to Kevin) to the same outlet. My goal is to have all rain water drain overboard and not depend "completely" on the pumps.
Here are some pics of the custom exhausts and my new deck layout:













Cheers,

[Yannis]

Jorge,

Some serious work there man!

Now I get it. When you guys talk about putting the drains through the exhaust, you DONT mean INSIDE the exhaust tubing, rather parallel and just using the final exhaust hole for discharge, right?


And, you still owe those anchor pics !!!

[JH_B28]

Jorge,

Some serious work there man!

Now I get it. When you guys talk about putting the drains through the exhaust, you DONT mean INSIDE the exhaust tubing, rather parallel and just using the final exhaust hole for discharge, right?


And, you still owe those anchor pics !!!

Yannis,

In my case, i'm using a separate tube for the drains but i've also seen many applications where you connect the drains or generator exhaust to the main exhaust tube. It is better to have a larger exhaust tube so you don't cause any restrictions in the exhaust flow, although many of the discharges are not constant (except if you run engines & generator at same time).


And yes! I still owe you the pictures of the final product. I haven't purchased the anchor roller yet. I'm in the fairing/ priming phase of the bridge and house. The worst part LOL







Sorry for derailing the thread

Regards!

[Kevin]

Jorge,
I like the exhaust outlets you made and I bet it will work just fine. I may do that when time allows. Bridge looks good too. No more screws. The cockpit side compartments look to be glassed in? If so I would like to learn more about what you used and how you did it. I just pulled mine out but not sure how am going to build it.
Kevin

[Yannis]

Thank you Jorge.

Could you please put up a pic of your engine room, in another thread, so I can see the layout...we have same m.y. boats and almost identical engines...I would like to see how hi or low your engines sit and if you have risers...I fear that you may have to add some kind of rubber or metal flaps to your exhaust holes so as to better keep your turbos dry from backsplash. The slope of the whole exhaust tube, with the Yanmars, is almost flat...
Thanks.

[Tony Meola]

Jorge

That exhaust set up is sweet. Great idea.

[Marlin]

My 2 cents, I like really dry bilges, mild/mold that tends to grow in the hidden areas of the deck underside, hoses,wiring tend to be unsightly and smelly,probably unhealthy and just dirty. Just this past week I installed a BILGE DRY SYSTEM out of Canada, 375$ Each copy,installed in my 42’ in 3 bilge areas that retained wAter that never could be pumped out, amazingly efficient and u can install 1 in less than an hour. Well thought out microprocessor,ultra quite pump and a water pickup system that’s unique. There are 2 s/s probes attached to the plastic suction block that are conductive and sence water to activate. Set this block/suction tube adjacent to the pump or float switch or the lowest point and route the discharge hose to where ever u can, sump box, sink drain hose ,bilge pump drain hose,it’s impressive.google them

On my 31 installed a 2” pvc drain tube on the strb side that is mounted at an angle to constant allow gravity drain of all grey water pumped into it, anchor locker sump, forward bilge pump, galley sink drain, a/c pump drain, dockside a/c drain , a/c self contained condensate drain, Capt pat intake air vent sea water intrusion drains, head sink drain, mid bilge pump,deck hatch drain troughts, live bait well, stern bilge pump etc. it starts high in the galley and falls to exit in the transom boot stripe. I learned of this system in my 42’ ,I didn’t think this up! Next week I’m going to install the dry bilge system into all areas I have remaining standing water in the 31. I have an Arid Bige Dry system in my 62 that’s loud, and super expensive and a maintenance expense, 3$ k to rebuild and it wasn’t really broken,just wanted it correct prior to sending the Boat to the Bahamas for 6 months. It works on a timer and we usually turn the breaker off at nite, which defeats the purpose but let’s everyone sleep.just some ideas

[JH_B28]

Jorge,
I like the exhaust outlets you made and I bet it will work just fine. I may do that when time allows. Bridge looks good too. No more screws. The cockpit side compartments look to be glassed in? If so I would like to learn more about what you used and how you did it. I just pulled mine out but not sure how am going to build it.
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Yes, the side compartments are glassed in. I made some plugs for the hatches and gutter and fabricated the whole piece and then I glassed them in. I wanted to use up all the possible space so I made a long hatch in the cockpit area and a small hatch right besides the engine hatch. This small space was basically lost so i will use it to store the saltwater wash down hose on one side and small storage on the other. Put two chase tubes (pvc) on each of the long compartments so I can store a mop or brush handle or even for rod storage (they extend into the engine room). I also made a toe recess on the bottom so I don't feel i'm gonna fall overboard when handling a fish over the side. I got a little creative with this part LOL

I'll create another thread to post up all the pictures of the process.

[JH_B28]

Jorge

That exhaust set up is sweet. Great idea.

Thanks Tony!

[SteveM]

Marlin, that sounds like what my neighbor has in his wood boat "Brat", you may have see it around, it's about 30'. thanks for the tip on the system.

[JH_B28]

My 2 cents, I like really dry bilges, mild/mold that tends to grow in the hidden areas of the deck underside, hoses,wiring tend to be unsightly and smelly,probably unhealthy and just dirty. Just this past week I installed a BILGE DRY SYSTEM out of Canada, 375$ Each copy,installed in my 42’ in 3 bilge areas that retained wAter that never could be pumped out, amazingly efficient and u can install 1 in less than an hour. Well thought out microprocessor,ultra quite pump and a water pickup system that’s unique. There are 2 s/s probes attached to the plastic suction block that are conductive and sence water to activate. Set this block/suction tube adjacent to the pump or float switch or the lowest point and route the discharge hose to where ever u can, sump box, sink drain hose ,bilge pump drain hose,it’s impressive.google them

On my 31 installed a 2” pvc drain tube on the strb side that is mounted at an angle to constant allow gravity drain of all grey water pumped into it, anchor locker sump, forward bilge pump, galley sink drain, a/c pump drain, dockside a/c drain , a/c self contained condensate drain, Capt pat intake air vent sea water intrusion drains, head sink drain, mid bilge pump,deck hatch drain troughts, live bait well, stern bilge pump etc. it starts high in the galley and falls to exit in the transom boot stripe. I learned of this system in my 42’ ,I didn’t think this up! Next week I’m going to install the dry bilge system into all areas I have remaining standing water in the 31. I have an Arid Bige Dry system in my 62 that’s loud, and super expensive and a maintenance expense, 3$ k to rebuild and it wasn’t really broken,just wanted it correct prior to sending the Boat to the Bahamas for 6 months. It works on a timer and we usually turn the breaker off at nite, which defeats the purpose but let’s everyone sleep.just some ideas

That is exactly what i'm doing, except that in the 28 everything is on port side. I will have a tube run on port side from the galley all the way to the outlet in the exhaust and one on starboard side from the engine room to the exhaust outlet. I will try to divide the discharges evenly between sides.


Regards,

[Dug]

Marlin,

I LOVE that Dry Bilge System. I closed off the cabin bilge and isolated it, yet it still retains some water and hence that stank. I have not figured out a good way, until you posted this option. Thank you so much. I am already talking with the yard about it!!!!

I can't wait to get at least one! I am not sure if there is much point in putting one outside the cabin, effectively taking care of the cockpit. It would work pretty darned hard. But again, given that I have a cockpit cover, it might be worthwhile. I will definitely start with one for inside the cabin!!!

Thank you again for sharing that idea!!! As for draining the hatches overboard? That is the stuff dreams are made of on Alchemy. Maybe the next deck. LOL!

Have a good weekend!

Dug