Generator size and Location?

[Seapalm]

Hey Guys,
I'm still removing the guts from my 31 and I am in the planing stage of my final lay-out. My boat came with the generator installed to the starboard side of the cabin under the cabinet just past the head. I was surprised to see this location, but it is well insulated and worked fine for the previous owner, who never overnighted on the boat. But not what I want from a safety and sound issue. We will be using this boat not only for fishing and overnight trips but family weekends and vacations on the water.

I don't see much, if any, room under the deck. So what do you guys have and what recommendations? Thanks for your time and thoughts!

[THESALTYSATO]

I have a Mase 3500 generator that was on the boat when I purchased it in 2016. The generator is located on the outboard side of the starboard engine, To me there are several problems. One it is difficult to get to and service but we all know we have limited space. Second if I ever need to replace the generator I have to pull the starboard engine, I have Yanmar 6 LP 315hp which take up the entire engine box area. I do not know if you are replacing or just wanting to relocate. The Mase is powered by a Yanmar engine but it is only one cylinder and it is not quiet but at least it is behind the cabin. Also it is encased in a sound reducing cabinet. I would also like to hear of others and their ideas.

[Snipe]

I was going to go Nextgen 3.5kw with sound box mounted out board of port engine.

[Tony Meola]

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.ph ... or#p115359

This link might help you to some degree. 99.9% of the 31's have the generators outboard of one of the engines.

Really tough to find a place. The only other place you might sneak it in is behind the fuel tank, but the issue there is you will not have good access to steering and aft bilge pump, plus it will get soaking wet.

[mike ohlstein]

[Snipe]

I tried to put a link but I failed maybe one of the guys can help? If you search Hancock generator Capt Pat had a good post on installing a Nextgen 3.5kw.

[mike ohlstein]

It's exactly where mine is.

http://bertram31.com/hancock/eng_cmpt/generator/

[Dug]

Damn he did nice work.

[David Davidson]

I put a Whisper Power 3.5 kw (continuous) forward of the fuel tank. They are supposed to be very quiet.
It’s very compact and weighs only 68kg (150lbs).
I had a shorter tank made, which is higher than the original, so I only lost around 40 litres.
https://postimg.org/image/wlw8cg78z/
Will advise once run up and operational (hopefully soon).
David

[Marlin]

I followed the Capt,s advise and did the Nex gen along port side the Cummins 330, QSB , it has been problematic and a real bitch to service. I cut an inspection hatch / opening into the fiberglass sound shield box, middle of the vertical side, attached 2outer ,1 bottom slides/stop to allow this inspection hatch to be easily removed to check the oil. It currently will not start again, need to remove the port engine box wing, turn my shoulders just rite, inhale and unsnap the retention latches,pull the top out. Mine has been on/off so many times the lag bolt holes that allow for the attachment are worn out so I need to drill new ones . I would never consider installing one again, 12 refrigerator, several house battery’s, open the door/hatch for natural air conditioning would be the way I would go

[Snipe]

Marlin thanks for the input. I know Some guys use Mase generators as well does anybody have any input on them. I know Bob Lico has one on Phenoix I know they are crammed in there. Just wondering how they run and if the hold up well?

[SteveM]

I have the Next Gen on the port side like the link above and image.
Mine has worked very well for 5 years.

[Tony Meola]

I followed the Capt,s advise and did the Nex gen along port side the Cummins 330, QSB , it has been problematic and a real bitch to service. I cut an inspection hatch / opening into the fiberglass sound shield box, middle of the vertical side, attached 2outer ,1 bottom slides/stop to allow this inspection hatch to be easily removed to check the oil. It currently will not start again, need to remove the port engine box wing, turn my shoulders just rite, inhale and unsnap the retention latches,pull the top out. Mine has been on/off so many times the lag bolt holes that allow for the attachment are worn out so I need to drill new ones . I would never consider installing one again, 12 refrigerator, several house battery’s, open the door/hatch for natural air conditioning would be the way I would go

Marlin

One day as I was trying to squeeze into the forward hanging locker to get at the bilge Pump hose, and having difficulty, one of the other guys working in the yard on their own boat stuck his head in to see what was going on. He realized that even though I am slightly but not really overweight and not a big guy that getting the shoulders in and getting to the hose was really difficult.

He offered to me a suggestion that I seriously considered. He said why don;t you just see if you can borrow some one's 5 year old kid to squeeze in there and get at the hose. So if you have any young kids in the family invite them over.

There are just those places on boats that you know they built the boat around.

[SteveM]

Tony
My son did that type of work in the marina for some of the larger sport fish boats years ago. He was naturally handy with tools and mechanics and small in stature. He ended up working on one boat for a while doing other odd jobs, waxing, etc. He turned down the pay (not sure I would have done that as a kid!), and accepted the custom t-shirts.

Steve

[Seapalm]

Great replies and really has me thinking...
Most items can be ran on a good inverter and as battery and inverter technology is so much more efficicient, I may plan to do the large house battery and ditch the generator all together. Is there a manufacturer that makes a suitcase gen in diesel like Honda does in a self contained carry-on unit. That would be ideal, only needing for AC and coffee maker on overnights at sea mostly, but there for emergencies as well, such as for pumps, battery jumps, etc. in Florida the humidity never gives you a good nights rest except during the Winter months.
No Gen, means less weight too...

[SteveM]

I have used the AC mostly while at port, with shore power.
I've yet to camp out on the hook, although hope to this summer.
Used it a couple times on long crossings, where I wanted to beat the heat, at that point it was being powered by the Generator.
Once I get a good fridge, I could see running the Generator more often.
Having it on the port side is good for weight balance as I have the batteries on the starboard side.

[Tooeez]

Seapalm, I have been using a 2,000 watt inverter for years to power my fridge. I have a 110v undercounter unit and a house bank of 2 group 31's, for a total of 250 a/h. That setup lets me run the fridge on the hook for over 24 hours, run the coffeemaker in the morning, use the microwave at dinner and still start the engine with no problem. I just added an a/c to the boat--have to see how well that works on the inverter.

[Marlin]

What’s the downside of a converter, what can’t it do that a 3.5 generator can do, I’m not familiar with the concept, still slugging it out with my nexgen ,would consider turning it into an anchor, extremely loud , I want to run the a/c as I installed it to cool the enclosed 1/2 tower and keep the refuge running, I’m sure all people have different needs

[bob lico]

I have to answer this post with multiple answers.first of all i spoke with my brother capt pat on this topic and he concurs the placement of a generator in the cabin is downright stupid for a person that plans to sleep in v-berth with inevitable carbon monoxide leak (colorless, tasteless, heavier than air, odorless )certain death ridiculous ignorant conversation so lets concern ourselves with generator outside the sleeping area.the placement must be adjacent to the port engine to balance the opposite side (starboard) weight of toilet, vanity top usually Corian or another solid surface top.and A/C compressor in rear bottom of vanity. the starboard side of the starboard engine should be your place for 17 to 20-gallon black water tank creating a counterbalance with the weight of the generator.now lets return to the generator. i used nuclear powerhouse SS 7/8" kindof bolted directly to F/G shelf starting inside of hull at the chine.i have no idea where to purchase in a remote area but it is the same structural stainless steel that a sliding boat seat is mounted on . the generator sits on this Kindolf with Kindolf nuts in tract to allow the generator to slide all the way back to fuel tank bulkhead giving you access to open doors on side of gen. i have a Mase 4.0 which i feel is too big for the job on a 31 Bertram. trust me i have every conceivable electrical marine device on board to take the boat to out island overnight or four grandchildren 6 adults outing for the day. blender,A/C, microwave, coffee maker, a miniature compressor for blow up rafts, etc. i use generator every time boat leaves the dock got to have fresh coffee, and mates needs a cold fridge. the secret to mase or next gen is the voltage regulator DO NOT USE MASE PARTS! pm me i will tell you what to do for problem free
generator.










it.

[JP Dalik]

Huh funny had a 5kw northern lights in the cabin for 9 years and am still alive so are a fair number of members on this board who fished with me. The unit pulled air from the engine side and was sealed in a hush box we made. Had it ever need be removed it would fit through the door. Seemed very well thought out.
Super quiet no smell and easy to get all the service area touched, made servicing the port engine water pump impeller much easier as well.
Worked so well I would do it again.
Never would have guessed I was ignorant and stupid.

[bob lico]

here we go again ! do you agree salt water circulating engine has sulfuric acid as a by-product and will crack hoses and destroy clamps eventually. carbon monoxide heavier than air with your face on the cushion in v-berth maybe 5 minutes.judging from my umpteen years in the volunteer fire dept. the good news they said the victim never has pain better i supply you with hand grenade pull pin and sleep on the stomach if you roll in your sleep you will no about it. seriously you have a beautiful family don`t take a chance that has no merit what so ever. the 5kw could supply two 31 Bertrams with today's led lights and advances in A/C.

[bob lico]

TERRIBLE SUBJECT but by the way i witness a man come "back" from death by carbon monoxide poisoning. he was distraught over the loss of wife and try to take his life.a neighbor call 911 and oxygen recitation with hospital stay he made it. like falling asleep. -----------devastating

[Tony Meola]

What’s the downside of a converter, what can’t it do that a 3.5 generator can do, I’m not familiar with the concept, still slugging it out with my nexgen ,would consider turning it into an anchor, extremely loud , I want to run the a/c as I installed it to cool the enclosed 1/2 tower and keep the refuge running, I’m sure all people have different needs

Marlin

The issue everyone seems to have with an inverter is that it will have trouble starting the compressor on the AC unit. I did read somewhere, that there is an AC unit out there that can be run off of an inverter, but for the life of me I can not remember the name of it.

I believe it has a built in hard start to help jump start the compressor. Once the compressor is running I believe it will keep running but the draw to start them is usually overwhelming for the inverter.

The other issue, and you would have to figure out the amp usage of the AC unit, is the battery size you would need to run on over night or all day what ever, before recharging the battery.

[JP Dalik]

First of all the entire cabin on every 31 is below the waterline and suspect to carbon monoxide intake when the door is open and the engines are running. That's why it's best practice to have a monoxide sensor installed in every cabin. The amount of open space between the engines and the cabin make every installation gas or diesel regardless of generator placement suspect.
Thank you for being a firefighter but how many of those people did you pull from a b 31. Stay on topic.
Because you are not a fan of a particular installation variant does not make it wrong. That style of thinking is accute to arrogance and verging on pompous.
You have some neat ideas Bob but there are several ways to skin a cat and build a Bertram. With a little more flexibility we could build a pretty cool boat.

[andresvarro]

Huh funny had a 5kw northern lights in the cabin for 9 years and am still alive so are a fair number of members on this board who fished with me. The unit pulled air from the engine side and was sealed in a hush box we made. Had it ever need be removed it would fit through the door. Seemed very well thought out.
Super quiet no smell and easy to get all the service area touched, made servicing the port engine water pump impeller much easier as well.
Worked so well I would do it again.
Never would have guessed I was ignorant and stupid.

JP,

I have also recently purchased a Northern Lights 5kW for my refit and was thinking about installing under port couch against the main bulkhead.

You wouldn't happen to have any advice on installation and/or pictures of where exactly you put it??

[bob lico]

with all due respect, i or my son and his wife or daughter and husband take my boat sleep with the generator running all night on BUT never engines on to sleep overnight never have to worry about carbon monoxide from engines. Mase generator mounted outside port engine like Mike O in a sound down hush box in a sound down engine compartment outside the closed cabin with A/C.(A/C is in the head vanity bottom back on 1" rubber pad ------silent

[SteveM]

well, if nothing else learned, I'm going to get a carbon monoxide detector for the salon.
My generator is outside the bulkhead on the port side of the engine.
But never can be too careful.

[bob lico]

excellent idea i have seen the results of carbon monoxide fatality three or four times in my days on the fire department rescue squad. contained compartment, colorless, odorless, but must of all heavier than air. i have felt it twice; dizzy, weaken ran out into the fresh air then you need oxygen in a hurry or it vomiting and sick.been there seen that --------, not a good subject, but let me say this, it happens real quick

[Yannis]

In the 28, it is not possible to seal off the engine room, especially under the bulkhead that separates the engine from the cabin.
There are 3 plus 3 openings (where there are corners/angles) so as to avoid hard spots and stress onto the hull.
Therefore, if that is also the case in the 31, which I assume it is, one cannot avoid CO intrusion into the cabin by just placing the gen into the engine room. If there is a leak, the CO will seep under the bulkhead into the cabin bilge.
So, if you are to install a detector, might I also assume it will be low in the bilge and not high on a wall?

[bob lico]

i treated the 31 Bertram as if it was a battleship that it is. i totally sealed off main bulkhead area from cabin both below and seam above door and windows including weather stripping around custom mahogany/glass door. mainly for A/C and heat efficiency but CM penetration also a concern.i want you to sit back and think BEFORE you comment.there is a 99.99 percent chance i am going to hit an obstruction going forward and a million to one hitting a floating pile in reverse.so if i do the inevitable and hit a floating log or whatever at 28 knots in the dark i will put a hole in the bow. i have separate bilge pumps high/low on separate battery banks.this ensures me an extra 5 minutes to get my crew into the life raft, set off Eperp and bang in Mayday on VHF.so isolating cabin gives extra emergency time with the dual crash valves, four bilge pumps in the cockpit area, as the sea water pours out under the door after filling cabin so by taking the extreme safety stance for carbon monoxide poisoning you also make a huge positive survival step .

[Yannis]

Bob,

I sat back enough !! and made myself ready for this:

First, I acknowledge your effort to seal off the cockpit from the cabin. It is indeed something I always wanted to do but failed each and every time....one discharge tube going through under the head, the battery switches that leave a void around them under the step, etc...made so that each year I rethink how to tackle this beast.

And second, Bob you are much more experienced than me...I only can whisper then that I wouldnt cruise at 28 knots at night. I would only cruise at hull speed, like the sailboats, or, yet better, I would not cruise at night at all.

But then again, if it makes you happy...