thoughts on a B38 with 6CTA power?

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Aug 28th, '17, 09:27

Been shopping for a while and we're starting to think a Bert 33 FBC may be a little too small for our needs. I'm now eyeing an 80's 38 that was repowered with 480hp CTA's. I haven't been able to find a whole lot of specifics on this combo, although the couple of posts I have found suggest that it may cruise in the mid 20's and top out over 30kts. Based on the CTA fuel burn curves I'm guessing that would give me close to 1 nmpg at cruise (12.5 gph per engine at 2100 RPM), but that seems optimistic for a boat this size.

Anyone have any experience with this combo? Plan to use it for 75% family cruising 25% fishing in the chesapeake bay area, as well as an occasional offshore trip out of VB. Thanks!

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Aug 28th, '17, 15:00

Sounds like a good combo to me. That was a dream of mine to do a B38 wide body with 6C or now Q series engines. I figured it was good size boat and speed I would of thought a little better upper 20's cruise. Just a dream. Stick with my B31 for awhile longer.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Aug 28th, '17, 21:37

The 38 is a great sea boat. Runs in almost anything you will want to be out in.

These boats were never speed demons. Not sure what those engines will do for her.

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Aug 29th, '17, 14:36

Seller reports 23-26 kts between 2000 and 2150 RPM, and just under 30 kts WOT. if true, that should equate to almost 1 mpg, assuming 12.5 gph per engine at 2000, which is I believe the spec if propped correctly. I'd be very happy with 1mpg in a 38' Bertram.

Very much appreciate the replies. Interested in any other opinions...also any comparisons with the 37. I've only seen pictures of both, but the wife likes the 38 because it has side porthole windows in the v-berth, which they seem to have eliminated in the 37 in favor of some sort of lighting arrangement. Or at least that's what the pictures look like to me.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Aug 29th, '17, 18:23

Incoming,
Good to talk to you earlier this evening, Brian Stetler's cell is
561-3127544 he is in Jupiter.
Good luck with finding the right boat.
Pete Fallon

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Aug 29th, '17, 18:50

Incoming,
There are 2 different hull designs for the 38 the older pre 1980 are hunt design deep V and the Napier design with a skeg keel similar to the 38 Special. Depends on what your looking for the deep V 38 is a tank also Bertram experimented with some foam coring in the mid 80's Napier designed 38's.
I would ride in both before you decide. The earlier 38's had big block Mercruisers and some even had bubbles added to the hull bottom to fit the 3208 Cat's. Good luck in your pursuit of a good boat for your family.
Pete Fallon

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Aug 30th, '17, 08:17

Thank you so very much Pete. I really enjoyed talking to you as well - you are certainly a wealth of knowledge! I'll give Brian a call this morning.

As far as what we're looking for, the Chesapeake can get real rough real quick, and I need a boat that, if we get caught on the wrong side of the bay on a bad day, I can look at my wife and tell her it may be a little bumpy and a little wet but we WILL get home safe. It surprised me having spent time offshore in central FL and in VB how "legit" the mid bay sea conditions can be. Not big - I'll never be out in anything much bigger than 4' or so up here, but very tight spacing and lots of "confused" action with waves suddenly doubling or even tripling up to surprise you. That being said I've been fine in my tiara 3100 open with a relatively flat bottom, using the tabs to adjust the ride and throttling back when the conditions warrant.

In the near term I'll be trolling for stripers and spending lots of weekends on her with our 2 girls and we like to stretch out the season from early spring to late fall, with spring and fall tending to be heavier on the fishing and summer being more cruising. We are also stretching our budget pretty significantly - this is a major investment for us, four or five times what we've ever spent on a boat before....so while I've planned what i think is a reasonable amount for annual maintenance we need a well-built, thoughtfully laid out boat with reliable power, and if we get in trouble down the line something we can sell if we have to and get a reasonable amount for.

But I also plan to keep the boat for the while and I'm anxious to get out of DC and get to the coast somewhere, maybe back to central FL, in which case I'll want a 20-40 mi offshore capable boat, a Bahamas capable boat, and in the nearer term may even take some trips down to VB to head out from there. What I don't see myself doing is overnight canyon trips out of Jersey or OCMD or anything like that. I suppose that could change, but that seems fairly unlikely. All of that is to say I think just about any bertram hull, as well as most vikings, hatteras, etc., would probably suit my needs. The one unknown is how uncomfortable the flybridge may get trolling at 3 kts in 2-3' chop, which is a pretty standard fishing day here in the bay. In those conditions, a little less vee and even that skeg keel may help a little?

Anyway, thanks again for all the thoughts. I'll keep everyone posted as we move through the process!

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Aug 30th, '17, 09:41

Incoming,

The 28 is smaller than the 31 by approx. 2 feet. It is also having a deeper vee than the 31 by 1 or 2 degrees.
If you look up under yachtworld for 28's for sale, there are currently more than 20 boats available, both in Europe as well as in the US. However, NONE of them has a tuna or marlin tower... People dont fish on 28's? Or is this perhaps an indication that the deeper vee rolls more ?

Anyway, at slow speeds and with a heavy chop the condition on the 28's bridge is rather unpleasant.
With a tower, I would tend to think that it can become scary.
Of course, the 38 is a much bigger and heavier boat, but you will have to try the conditions on the bridge first, as Pete suggests, before going ahead.
Its a pitty to have to stay alone up there just because the roll makes it so unconfortable for your crew to follow you.
Good luck!
PS:the 38 is a tank alright, but the 37 is so beautiful !!

Bill Fuller · Post by **Bill Fuller** » Aug 30th, '17, 10:20

Visit sbmar.com and boatdiesel.com to learn more about the motors.
Especially sbmar.com (Tony Athens)

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Aug 30th, '17, 10:55

Bill Fuller wrote:Visit sbmar.com and boatdiesel.com to learn more about the motors.
Especially sbmar.com (Tony Athens)

Yup i've spent quite a bit of time on both sites and even had a chance to talk to Tony on the phone a bit a couple of weeks ago. Biggest issue, besides keeping up with routine maintenance, is especially since the 480hp variant is at the very top of the hp range for the internals, verifying that it has not been overpropped. The seller advertises 2600 RPM at WOT, and while I'd like to see that more like 2650 or 2700, I really won't be able to determine fuel burn at cruise RPM (which sbmar says is the key indicator if it's propped correctly) until I sea trial. So we'll see how it goes.

wmachovina · Post by **wmachovina** » Aug 30th, '17, 20:26

I have a 79 38 with mechanical 450cs. Great comb, 20-21 kts at 2000 29 on pins 2600+ depending on bottom. The boat feels more tender than my 31 more like a great big 28. Big pit big salon, funky head idea in the v birth( gone I mine) . Call me 7722406146. I'm traveling now will b home saturday, Bill

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Sep 1st, '17, 10:37

Went ahead and made an offer and we're under contract. Turned out to be a multiple offer situation, which was bad for me price-wise. But if it's as good as described I think it will be worth it. There's a bunch of them out there but nothing else that has relatively fresh power and a re-done interior. Plan to do a hull and engine surveys and sea trial and will let you guys know how it does. Here's a link to the boat if anyone's interested in taking a look at the pics:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Be ... aQnd9MrI62

Catalina31 · Post by **Catalina31** » Sep 1st, '17, 14:28

Incoming,
Great boat choice. I have a 1982 38 that was repowered with the Cummins 6BTA 5.9s. The amount of room in the engine room is awesome compared to the original 903s and I am very happy with her increase in speed and fuel efficiency, and lucky for you, you don't have to gut the bill top have the repower done! We cruise at 20 knots and WO is 29. Wishing you the best with your sea trials and survey.
-Brian Vanderspek

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 1st, '17, 16:23

partner had but donated legally for IRS donation but still have every sign of ownership except title. captain patrick custom bridge and cockpit,custom live well ,gin pole,Rupp riggers with teaser reels . caterpillar 3208 at 435 hp ,23to 24 knots. took into ocean and ran into storm with 10 to 12' waves and 40 knot winds along cape may broke out of storm and took up to new jersey atlantic highlands marina. i am restoring electrical,complete restoration of panda 8kw generator ,hy-drive hydralic steering,service engines and ZF gears .this winter will do rudders,bearings. we take her out every couple of weeks to test --------fantastic boat in rough water!!!!!!!!!!
6CTA is the best diesel engine ever designed bar none . new trucks running on compressed natural gas have led the world in proven reliability. now design for electric mode CMI stock has triple in the last few years. 6CTA in compress natural gas mode has destroyed all competition ,every bus made will have a natural gas powered cummins this may or may not be good but they are made in USA. buy this boat !!!!!!!!! when i refer to "best diesel " i refer to 6cta-M3 or M4 . 450hp diamond or 480 hp electronics both have Bosch 7100 fuel injection pumps. has to be 1997 or newer.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 1st, '17, 22:40

She looks like a great find. Clean boat from the pics.

38 Bertram will never disappoint. If you are going to take her offshore a lot, I would glass in the front windows. That is the only week spot if you take a big wave.

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Sep 20th, '17, 09:42

Did the survey last weekend and thought i'd get some thoughts from you guys before proceeding.

First, unfortunately the stbd engine blew a raw water hose at 2400 rpm so we weren't able to complete the sea trial. Up to that point, the engines were running great. Engine surveyor was comfortable giving engines a clean bill of heath provided the engines would reach rated WOT RPMs once the hose has been repaired. Oil samples were fine, visual inspection good with the exception of one oil leak and a mechanical temp guage that's no good, but that's about it. He thought the engines looked good and there was evidence of a recent overhaul (heads, etc looked to have been done recently)

The hull survey turned up lost of small issues, and a few significant but probably not deal-breaking issues. Biggest being rot and several wet spots in the engine room aft bulkhead (below deck level) from water leaking in through the aft bulkhead door, etc. I'm having that evaluated.

Another issue was all of the seacocks are stuck open. Typically, can these be freed with lubrication and elbow grease or do they usually need to be replaced? If replacing, can you just replace the ball valve or does the whole through hull assembly need to be R&R'd?

The engine room blower trips the circuit breaker. This was a gas to diesel repower back in the early 2000's. Dumb question but does a diesel boat even need a blower? Does anyone know the approx size for an engine room blower for this class of boat so i can look up the replacement cost online?

Most of the other issues I've been able to do my own estimates for, but interested in your guys thoughts on the above, and the idea of moving forward with the purchase upon verification of the WOT RPMs of the engines in a second sea-trial.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 20th, '17, 12:25

Blowers are nice if only to pull some heat out if you need to go in when motors are hot. With or without it's lousy being in the hole with hot iron...but a little less with cool air being pulled in.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 20th, '17, 20:04

Carl wrote:Blowers are nice if only to pull some heat out if you need to go in when motors are hot. With or without it's lousy being in the hole with hot iron...but a little less with cool air being pulled in.

Carl

Unfortunately blowers pull out and dont push in. So they only will suck out hot air and I have not seen a blower big enough to make a difference.

I would just ynak them out since they are not required.

Make sure you have ball valves and not gate valves. Depending on the design you may be able to replace the valve and not the thru hole fitting.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 21st, '17, 07:03

Tony Meola wrote:
Carl

Unfortunately blowers pull out and dont push in. So they only will suck out hot air and I have not seen a blower big enough to make a difference.

Yes, but the hot air being sucked out is replaced by cooler air being pulled in. True, they do not amount to much...but when stuck in the hole anything is better then nothing.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 21st, '17, 07:37

Tony Meola wrote:
Carl

Unfortunately blowers pull out and dont push in. So they only will suck out hot air and I have not seen a blower big enough to make a difference.

Yup, that's why I said pulled in; blows hot air out allowing cooler air to be pulled in. True not a heck of a difference, but anything can be better then nothing. Then again intakes are usually mounted low for fumes in gas applications...but again its the better then nothing.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Sep 21st, '17, 15:37

Nice !

Shall I get rid of my blower in my Yanmars? I feel its useless...the fumes, if any, are not combustible with diesel.
What do you think?

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Sep 21st, '17, 17:19

yes yannis you don't need it

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Sep 21st, '17, 19:29

Thanks for the input on the blowers and the seacocks. Sounds like the blower isn't worth bothering with.

New information. The boat builder/wood worker I had look at the aft engine room bulkhead came back with a less than favorable report. He said there are definitely signs of ongoing water leaks both at the aft door of the saloon and probably at least one other spot along the back bulkhead. He said the water leak absolutely needs to be addressed and it could take hours if not a couple of days to locate them and stop them all.

As far as the aft engine room bulkhead itself, he said the "right" way to fix it would be to sandwich the whole thing. That would be a very time intensive process since all the cables, etc mounted to it would have to come off. He also said the saloon floor is a bit weak. He said when they re-engined it, they must have enlarged the hatches and not supported it all properly. He said ideally the saloon floor should be re-done, but he could probably stiffen it up with some brackets and get it to "good enough." The current owner knew about the problem because he had a 2x4 wedged in supporting the floor.

All told he said he thought about $6500. That's in addition to about $5k of "punch list" stuff from the survey. He also said the aft engine room bulkhead was unlikely to fail structurally any time soon, and if you wanted to just live with it you could just fix the leaks (assuming you can find them), dry it out, and spray some hardener on it, and it would (probably) be fine for a while. In any rate, it isn't going to fail catastrophically...just get worse over time.

My surveyors told me they see this kind of stuff in just about every sport fish/convertible they look at, and the engine surveyor couldn't say enough good things about the engines even though they blew a hose during the sea trial. They both said they survey a lot of boats and I'd be hard pressed to find one of this vintage that's in as good shape, all things considered. Now the guy I had go in and look at the wood issues says he sees a lot of signs of neglect and urged caution with proceeding.

So who do I believe? The seller supposedly has a backup buyer and is unlikely to come down much at all on the price. Very much thinking about walking away...but more as a "gut feel" that this boat may have more wrong than I know. From the hose blowing on the sea trial and A/C not working, all kinds of smaller issues on the survey, now peeling the onion on these wood repair problems...not exactly in the condition it was advertised. Am I reacting too negatively?

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 21st, '17, 22:00

Welcome to the world of older boats.

The question is how handy are you and what do you want to take on and what do you want to farm out.

Remember the money is in the Iron as Uncle Vic god rest his sole used to say.

How good is the surveyor and How good is the wood guy is the question. Maybe the wood guy just is not interested in getting involved.

Try beating the owner up using the survey to see if you can get him to come down. He may have someone else waiting but if they did not do a survey they could walk away after getting one.

So with you he has a bird in hand and may jump at it.

The 38 is a tough boat. I would glass in the front windows if you plan on running offshore in any kind of nasty weather. I met a guy who had the front window on his 38 blown out with a huge wave while trying to fight his way home in a storm. It caused the bridge to partially sag, he shored it up with a door and sheet rock screws until he made it back to port.

Even with that, he told me he had no doubts the boat was bringing him home.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 22nd, '17, 09:58

step # 1 ; open both port and starboard sliding windows . step # 2 ; open engine room hatch in floor the air movement thru cabin will pull foul air out of engine room. step # 3 locate blower ,cut 12 volt feed and remove. step # 4 throw blower in dumpster step 5 utilize the cut 12 volt wires for modern LED engine room lighting especially area between engine and hull side . the blower breaker is now your new engine room lights .---------------no comments thats the way it is done!!!!!!

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Sep 22nd, '17, 13:00

Tony Meola wrote:Welcome to the world of older boats.

How good is the surveyor and How good is the wood guy is the question. Maybe the wood guy just is not interested in getting involved.

I think both are good they are just coming at it from different perspectives. The marine carpenter is a custom boat builder who freely admits he's "never seen a production boat that was built right." The surveyor sees tons and tons of old sport fishers where he tells the buyers "just walk away, it ain't worth it at any price."

What it really comes down to, I think, is a question of price. At this price range (~$90k) could I find one with better "guts" and just as good engines? The surveyor seemed to think I'd be hard pressed to do any better, the wood guy thought there'd be stuff out there in better shape at or close to that price range. But, again, he's just looking at the wood, not the 2002 6CTAs that just had heads, turbos, etc overhauled.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Sep 22nd, '17, 14:54

from the pics the boat looks nice

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 22nd, '17, 22:44

Follow Bob's advice.

I don't know if you will find a 38 that meets your criteria. I unless it has been redone they all will have issues.

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Sep 23rd, '17, 07:46

Here is the perfect candidate.

https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/boa/ ... 43733.html

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 23rd, '17, 22:24

She is a 73. Why do these people start these projects only to destroy the boat.

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Sep 24th, '17, 08:25

easy now Tony

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Sep 24th, '17, 13:07

timmy that 38 is not to far from me
let me know if you want me to take a look for you

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Sep 24th, '17, 23:47

Charlie,

European coast guard regulations are sometimes very different from the US ones.
As a result, all american boats have to make the necessary modifications and issue a CE certificate, otherwise they are illegal.
I was talking to a friend who told me that blowers are the first thing the inspectors look for in a boat....this is translated into "I have to see the regulation before I disconnect anything", but I agree with you, blowers are useless in diesels.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Sep 25th, '17, 05:36

She looks nice in the pictures. You're buying a 32 year old boat, that's pretty big with a lot of systems. If you're concerned about the $5k punch list and $6.5k other repair, you may want to rethink the whole thing. You're just getting started. I'm not trying be a jerk. It's why I've stayed with a B31 that's pretty simple. I'd love a B38 or B42. The care and feeding of a boat that size, that old, with that many systems, isn't cheap

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Sep 25th, '17, 08:04

I totally get what you are saying. The reality is there's about $12k of stuff that absolutely has to be done right away and another $15k of stuff that will need to be done in the next year or two (not counting regular maintenance like bottom job, etc), or more if I wanted to refresh the electronics. Even so, that doesn't necessarily scare me off - that's about what I'd expect on average. The problem is that, because it was billed as being in such great condition, the starting price was really high - $95k, because it was billed as being in such great shape (and looks that way from the pictures). The reality is that it's in more like average condition with a few niceties (like the 6CTAs), several hidden problems, old (and in some instances not functioning) electronics, etc., making it more realistically a $75k-$80k boat to the right buyer. Then on top of that there are lots of signs, after peeling the onion, that when the owner was faced with a repair, he took the "band-aid" approach more often than not, leading a somewhat uncomfortable feeling on what else is going to be lurking under the surface. I'd still snap it up in a heartbeat for $75-$80k, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards, and I'm just not in a position to overpay for a boat by $15-$20k, no matter how much I like the layout.

I really appreciate all of your comments and thoughts - and this may end up working out after all. But I'm going to step back and take a breath for now.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 25th, '17, 09:49

one thing is for sure always expect the unexpected. we purchase this 38 bertram siting in the water at a Maryland dock after going thru the normal porcedure for inspection as i stated before this one time sport fishing boat with all the fishing extras was use as a gambling and" party "boat.i am repeating myself so other brothers are aware of problems that are not in the book .the boat had both oil pans rotted thru from not changing the engine oil for years . caterpillar 3208 have steel oil pans unlike cummins with cast aluminum ,any ways could not get NJ marine mechanic to change pans with engine in boat so i had to supervise a skinny small yard worker at a 100.00 a hour he normally get 15.00 just do what i tell you with no questions so with large mirror and LED lighting to make sure gasket was propely installed he went at it , all others wanted to remove or lift engine to cockpit floor level .the 29,000 purchase price started to escalade between the oli pans,complete renovation of generator both electrical,and diesel parts and replace mildew original interior.so now it is 60,000 then wilh removing outdated hynatic steering and replace with HY-DRIVE steering and still must address teak cockpit deteriorating along with complete canvas on bridge . so in retropect don`t purchase a bertram that needs work even if "price is right" if you want to use it it in near future and yes the iron is the main deal no matter how pretty she is if it has detroits it is still worthless for resale and a whole lot of aggravation. this 38 bertram with 6cta`s is worth the work however would be nice if owner was doing the work to keep cost down .

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Sep 25th, '17, 10:58

Depending on how much I trusted the surveyor I would be more inclined to listen to his advise. It sounds to me like you haven't looked at enough 38's to satisfy yourself on how much you should be paying. How long and how many 38's have you looked at? If I didn't feel good about the boat I wouldn't buy it. Maybe it's a good deal and maybe it's not. I would keep looking there is always more boats on the market or coming on the market.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 25th, '17, 12:28

for a average guy the bulkhead is a joke, literally a walk in the park let me explain. when you enter cabin there is a hidden wood cut out in OEM salon floor. when you remove it is or was before capeting a access point to two battery switches,two bilge pump switches ,a safety switch for engine room halon system.all of it has to come out.also they broke Capt. Bob`s rule number one that is never,never put charger in engine room. you clean wall of every wire and install hull side to hull side Azak brand pvc board in 3/4" size with 1x4" mahogony stip on top to support door ,windows in cockpit. you install new battery switches engines (two AGM batteries port and starboard engine) then switch for house and third switch for generator all isolated with charger installed next to main electric panel.power for bilge comes off each bank of batteries so there will always be power to bilge pumps rather then wear one down. so in the purchase of this 6CTA 38 Bertram i am not the least bit concern with rot in bulkhead!!!!! seriously about the same concern as what color are the V-birth cushions!!.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Sep 25th, '17, 13:00

Bob's post illustrates the "you're just getting started" comment

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Sep 25th, '17, 19:00

Yannis wrote:Incoming,

The 28 is smaller than the 31 by approx. 2 feet. It is also having a deeper vee than the 31 by 1 or 2 degrees.
If you look up under yachtworld for 28's for sale, there are currently more than 20 boats available, both in Europe as well as in the US. However, NONE of them has a tuna or marlin tower... People dont fish on 28's? Or is this perhaps an indication that the deeper vee rolls more ?

Anyway, at slow speeds and with a heavy chop the condition on the 28's bridge is rather unpleasant.
With a tower, I would tend to think that it can become scary.
Of course, the 38 is a much bigger and heavier boat, but you will have to try the conditions on the bridge first, as Pete suggests, before going ahead.
Its a pitty to have to stay alone up there just because the roll makes it so unconfortable for your crew to follow you.
Good luck!
PS:the 38 is a tank alright, but the 37 is so beautiful !!

I've owned 1-28 and 2-31s....I think you have the deadrise backwards.
A 28 is nowhere near the sea-boat of a 31 in a chop or offshore !!
I would take a 27 Blackfin with outboards over a 28 Bertram with 305s or 350s .....I owned one of those too !
Original 38 wide-body with right power I would pounce on.
38 Special .... I just love the boat !!!
38 FBC of same vintage ... nice, but I ant goin' outta my way to find one.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 25th, '17, 20:12

Steve

MY friends 28 seems to take a head sea better than my 31. I think it is due to the deeper V. But strap yourself in if you are in a beam sea.

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Sep 25th, '17, 21:38

buzzk wrote:Depending on how much I trusted the surveyor I would be more inclined to listen to his advise. It sounds to me like you haven't looked at enough 38's to satisfy yourself on how much you should be paying. How long and how many 38's have you looked at? If I didn't feel good about the boat I wouldn't buy it. Maybe it's a good deal and maybe it's not. I would keep looking there is always more boats on the market or coming on the market.

Yup that's part of my problem. This was the first one I looked at, started off looking at 33 FBCs a year or so ago. The 38 has the same layout but everything seems "right-sized" on the 38 vs the 33 that felt cramped.

I also totally understand the "you're just getting started" part too. But since I was waffling I went back to the surveyor with the observations from the wood guy and he changed his tune saying "well it's really still only going to be a $75k boat even after you've fixed the problems."

I'm also doing all of this from 1000 miles away, and haven't been able to fly back down to relook at any of these things. I don't know any of the local people and they know once I buy the boat and take it away they'll never see me again. So it's hard to know who to trust. But ultimately all the independent advice I was getting converged to "if you aren't 100% sure you should walk" and not having had the experience at looking at a bunch of others and being told "you're paying too much" it's hard to have a lot of confidence

Maybe after I look at a few more I'll come back to this one and wish I had gone through with it, or maybe it'll still be available and the seller will be more motivated to deal. Either way, live and learn.

Truly appreciate the wisdom and guidance from you all. I still have a lot to learn...

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Sep 25th, '17, 23:14

Incoming,

Good luck, dont act in a hurry, a good opportunity will come about again soon.

Steve,

Like with cars, there are many boat models to satisfy the different needs of everyone.
Also, I came to learn that all details about boat characteristics are useless, if the final product does not deliver to the owner's expectations.

For me, a boat into the cabin of which I cannot stand up straight, or a boat into which I get wet everytime the wind blows, is a boat that does not meet my requirements as a buyer.
I would much rather deal with the small problems that a deeper V creates, namely rolling in slow speeds, as in higher speeds there is no such thing, and arrive dry and ironed to my destination on a wavy day. And after that, to live on a boat with adequare space for a comfortable stay.
Thats why I chose the 28 over the 31.
Those who chose the 31 over the 28, probably have their own reasons to do so and I wish they made the right decision for themselves.

If ONE country would be the best in the world, everybody would wish to live there. Can you imagine how crowded it would feel?

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Sep 28th, '17, 13:50

Well after additional consideration and further negotiations with the seller it looks like we may be moving forward after all. Still need to complete the sea trial and verify the engines turn correct RPM at WOT, but looks like I'll soon be a proud member of the bertram owner's club. I suspect I'm going to have a lot of questions...

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 28th, '17, 20:43

Early Congrats and best of luck with her if all goes well in the Sea Trial.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 29th, '17, 07:13

one additional bit of information from one whom is building one. this is NOT a 2012 BMW meaning look at another one. there are only two 6cta-m3 powered in the entire world for sale the other is a all painted interior fishing only boat so your choice if you want 6cta-m3 electronic 480 hp as oppose to 3208/ 375hp or OEM detroit is ONE. no accident,no groundings,no fire,no sinking,great engines,gears,shafts,structs the rest is subject to change now or in future.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Sep 29th, '17, 10:37

Incoming: Where on the Bay are you located? I am on the Rappahannock about 10 miles from the Bay. You are right about the Bay conditions. Now you know why the preferred workboat is a 40' deadrise! It will cut through 3 waves at the same time, thereby avoiding all of the pitching and pounding! Rawleigh

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Sep 29th, '17, 12:09

Rawleigh wrote:Incoming: Where on the Bay are you located? I am on the Rappahannock about 10 miles from the Bay. You are right about the Bay conditions. Now you know why the preferred workboat is a 40' deadrise! It will cut through 3 waves at the same time, thereby avoiding all of the pitching and pounding! Rawleigh

I keep my Tiara at Herrington Harbour South, which is a little under 20 miles south of Annapolis. The Tiara 3100 has been a great boat for us but with two gradeschool age girls we're just outgrowing it. I'm also looking forward to having a little bit more length and a deeper v, to hopefully make more days fishable and all days "returnable." I'm wondering though if the 38 will be a little more tender than my modified v, low center of gravity tiara express when trolling at 3.5 kts. Also a bit worried I'll be able to get down to 3.5 kts running on one of those 6CTAs. But all in all I'm really excited.

Those Chesapeake deadrise boats are amazing though. I'd never heard of them when I moved up here from FL. They just cut through the nasty stuff at 15 or 17 kts on a single diesel, and fish a ton of people trolling in the slop without getting anyone sick! I looked at them but as cost effective as they are when they're bare-bones they get expensive quick when you start wanting a wife-friendly cabin.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Sep 29th, '17, 19:37

Wife friendly cabin? Cutting though the waves? B28. B38 is waaaay bigger, so it will sufice.

incoming · Post by **incoming** » Oct 4th, '17, 19:39

Well the saga continues. Finally got the second sea trial arranged to verify WOT RPM. this time, the stbd engine spun up to 2600, but the port wouldn't go higher than 1950. Racor clean, no other sings of trouble. Owners mechanic suspects secondary fuel filter. Does that make sense? They are going to change it and run it again in the morning.