I smell a big lawsuit coming!

[IRGuy]

A guy in custody and handcuffed while on a Missouri Highway Patrol boat after being suspected of being drunk while operating a boat on Lake Of The Ozarks drowned when he fell/jumped overboard and his life preserver somehow comes off.

Lets see.. in custody, handcuffed, gets into water, life preserver comes off..... I predict a huge lawsuit coming!

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... dbc3b.html

[mike ohlstein]

As well there probably should be.....

[Bruce]

Rules of life....

1. If your handcuffed behind your back in a fast boat with a non fastened life preserver, keep your ass in a seat.

This is not a movie set and your not pulling a Panama...............

[Kevin]

I disagree that there "should" be a lawsuit, but there likely "will" be a lawsuit.
I try not to draw conclusions based on media reports.
First off there are TYPES of PFD'd, not levels.
If you are handcuffed for DUI/BUI testing and you try to escape there are usually consequences, some more serious than others. Jumping out of a car is one thing. Jumping out of a boat is another. Did he jump or fall? If the Trooper was operating carelessly that would be a problem, but we don't know that yet. Ultimately, the Trooper is responsible for safety of the person in cuffs, hence the term in custody.
Unless you are in a sanctioned race and trained to use them, seatbelts and the associated harnesses/safety gear have no place on a boat. Far more people would die from not being able to free themselves after an incident/capsize.
Nobody wins here. If cops fail to do their job because of liability and let drunks go in a car or on a boat, someone else could die.
Just my .02

[buzzk]

How do you even hang on in a boat with your hands cuffed behind your back. If you tried to stand to let your legs absorb some of the shock when you hit any waves or use your hands to keep from hitting your head bouncing around in a small boat you couldn't with your hands behind your back. I have a bad back and I can't sit in a small boat when I go over wakes. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

[IRGuy]

Kevin..

I defer to your expertise but I always assumed that when a police officer has someone "in custody", meaning he has somehow restricted the person from being able to use his hands and possibly feet that the officer is responsible for assuring the subject remains safe. I suppose an analog could be a subject cuffed and maybe his feet are immobilized and he is in the back of a police car when the officer driving loses control of the car and an accident occurs where the subject is killed. It seems to me the officer has assumed responsibility for the subject, and if harm comes to him very likely the officer would be found to have not protected the subject from harm, since the subject couldn't protect himself.

How the life jacket left the subject is a matter that could have several explanations, none good for the officer, IMHO.

[Carl]

Rules of life....

1. If your handcuffed behind your back in a fast boat with a non fastened life preserver, keep your ass in a seat.

Sounds like good advice...unfortunately a person with a few too many isn't thinking clearly...and obviously if that was the case he should not have been behind the wheel.

I have no idea what is right or wrong, I am sure facts are somewhat skewed at this point.


....what significance is it that the guy always had a Big Smile and Xcellent grades.
....if important,k why do we not hear about the officers family and kids and what a great dad he is and what had to endure to become an officer.

No right or wrong, but background has little bearing on what happened.

[Kevin]

Frank,
You are correct that the officer is responsible. There is really no way around that.
If a ski type vest is worn, the only way to get it on properly is the vest goes on first, then the cuffs. That is assuming you have a compliant subject.
Most of the time it is the horse collar type PFD that is used. In that case you can have the cuffs on first. The nylon strap and clip can be manipulated properly around the cuffed subject and properly secured. Either way it would be very difficult to become separated from the PFD.

I used to do solo boat patrol and deal with that stuff all the time. We did not use leg restraints. If we were alone and had to transport by boat we did. If you have a partner that is ideal. One runs the boat and the other is arms reach from the guy in cuffs. If we felt the guy was going to be cool they could sit on the seat in front of the console. If I had a partner and the guy was not compliant the guy would be on his keaster on the deck by the scuppers. You really had to talk to people and just treat them right even when they knew they messed up. You had to convey that there was an easy way and a way that would likely be painful and let them decide. I never had an issue or got my ass kicked even with pretty serious offenders. One good guy and four bad guys on a boat with the nearest back up being, well, non-existent at times. There is lots of calculated risk involved. You must be able to articulate what you did and it should be viewed as reasonable based on the totality of the circumstances. Sometimes you just had to say F*** it and catch them later if the hair on the back of your neck stood up.

As for health conditions such as bad backs.....If you are on a boat it is presumed that you are somewhat mobile because you put yourself on a boat to begin with. Transporting in cuffs, front or back, you only go as fast as the conditions allow.

With the topic situation, nobody wins. A life is lost whether he was a great dude or not. The ones that cared about him are suffering. The cop is alive but may wish that he was not and his family will suffer as well.

I will be curious to hear the outcome.