bertram31.com

Hello old friends, hope everyone is well.
I go to the most trusted source of boating information I know.
I'm about to paint a boat and my boss's supplier carries alexseal instead of awlgrip, and states that it's as good as if not better than awlgrip. What's the skinny?? Thanks in advance for any feedback..

Mitch,

I'm sure that others who really know will reply, in the mean time here's some food for though.

I have no first hand knowledge, just some info on what I've read and the fact that I need to repaint in the next year or two and have been paying attention.

1st thought: if you're having someone paint, go with what they know how to use. Not as popular but also regard well is IMRON's line of paints. I guess the logic behind this is that if the painter isn't familar or comfortable with the paint he's painting you may have some material/time wasted as he learns. If you work it out in advance not too bad, just so you both know what's happening.

2nd thought: not too long ago I did some searching for opinions on Alexseal/Awlgrip and found that some say the AWLGRIP had changed recently and not for the better. Some good and some bad on Alexseal. I believe Hatterass is using Alexseal now. It would be on my short list

3rd thought: AWLCRAFT2000, is from the same folks as AWLGRIP, suppose to be nearly as good and more repairable. Not sure if it is affected by the re-mix or not?

hope this is is some help, can't wait to see what others who have more knowledge say.

br,
JohnD

Good question!

I am in the process of doing all the prep work on "Phoenix" so I can have a professional shoot her. I tried to read up on the different paints and manufacturers before I started, but after spending a lot of time on the internet I decided that most likely all the more popular names are good, and I probably would be happy with any of them. As suggested above by JohnD I took the suggestion of the pro who will apply the paint and we are going with AwlCraft 2000. He says it is easier to use, and being somewhat softer it is easier to touch up than AwlGrip. My boat is in the same building as the painter, and I have seen him paint maybe 10 boats so far this winter, and all of them with AwlCraft 2000. They look beautiful! I noticed a couple of cans on his bench that are from Alexseal, but they aren't opened yet.

How do you rate a paint job? They all look great when first applied. Once they are painted the boats return to their owners and are never again compared, so there is no baseline evaluation possible. As far as I know if done properly they all are durable, and if the owners take care of them (follow the mfgr's instructions for washing.. and not waxing!) they are supposed to last 10+ years. The hull of my boat was painted with AwlGrip about 15 years ago and still looks OK considering the previous owner never even washed her and got a bunch of dings and scratches that he never repaired. When compounded a little the finish looks OK, but I am redoing the whole boat so she will be painted again.

My final comments.. I suspect they are all good.. I would probably be happy with any of them, and I have trust in the pro that will do the actual application. He keeps telling me that the quality of his paint job will depend on the prep work I am doing. So far I have invested about 130 manhours of my time in prep work (including the removal of all the single part paint the previous owner applied to the topsides and decks with a nap roller but did not tip with a brush), and I still have maybe 20 or so hours to go.

Trust your painter!

I have kept up boats since high school, back in the '80's. (got me through school) Hatteras used to only use Imron, now they have changed to Awl Grip. The only boat I continued to maintain was a '88 65' Hat, it was repainted for the first time three years ago with the Awl Grip because that is what Hatteras sujested. Last summer I was looking at it in the sun and could already see paint faid. Yep, we do get some sun up in Seattle. I can not imagine how it would look in the southern sun. My 31' Bertram was painted 10 years ago with Imron and still out shines that Hat! To be fair I do keep it undercover and polish it every couple of YEARS. Stick with the tried and true Imron.

Stick with the tried and true Imron.

A man after my own heart... Awlgrip, and probably Awlcraft too, suck. No experience with Alexseal at all. Hard to go wrong with Imron.

When I painted Dreamsicle I went with Awl Craft since that is what the yard, which had just received "Best paint shop on the Bay" by (I believe) Chesapeake Bay Magazine uses. The paint has developed white spots about the size of your pinky nail all over. They are not water spots and will buff out. But if I buff them they come back in months so my paint would be good for about three years. Contacted the Awl Grip rep who said that the company was sold. My question to the rep was, "Does that mean you bought the assets but not the liabilities?" No answer. No explanation. They took some left over paint to experiment and that has been two years ago and not a word! There is a sample that they sprayed hanging on the office wall of the yard and I am told one hanging at the factory. Rumor has it that they will supply new paint but no labor. So, I pay for a respray ($$$$) with no assurance of success in the future.
Shame on Awl Grip. When first painted people continually asked whose paint, and now they ask for a different reason. Bad advertising for them, huh?

Needs an article in one of the boating books.

Walter, Agreed, but who would take on an advertiser?
Sorry, preaching to the choir.

The threat of it happening might get you some action. You have some connections...drop a name or two...even Bertram 31.com. Send the letter Certified, receipt signature required, cc's to your attorney on the bottom (even if you don't send it to him, etc. Request response in 10-15 days and if nothing happens, we'll all start writing.

Mikey that was a custom color wasn't it? Not that it should make a difference but I've only worked with factory colors with good success.

For what its worth this is the little I know about the paints.

My brothers new ride and several of the customs I have seen are painted with Awlcraft 2000 supposed to be easier to repair because of the way the paint sets up- gloss all the way through blah blah blah it can be wet sanded and worked with a wheel for repairs

I've had good luck with Awlgrip (I can't say it sucks) both brushing and spraying in light and dark colors- Repairs are a bitch and I've only been able to work the paint with color sanding and a wheel when its still green

My friends on the Canyon Runner- (60' Richie boat) used Alexseal Phil has done some repairs that look great with this paint- word is it is easy to repair similar to Awlcraft not sure if its the silver bullet or not

Like it was said before IMRON is a spray only repairable paint product with good gloss and good life. I have little experience with this outside of an 1987 47' Buddy Davis I worked on as a kid. That boat held its color and gloss for over 5 years.

Ain't paint fun

Mikey,I used Alexseal.the guy biuilding my boat has used all three and likes it the best. the paint job is flawless. time will tell how it holds up. I like Walters idea a write in campaign..Russ

JP,
yes, custom color. However the manufacturer didn't make a disclaimer for "custom" colors so as a consumer I would expect the same performance. Am I assuming too much?
Which way to go.

My Imron job is now 10 years old and the boat is always outside. The hull and most exterior paint was damaged during Katrina in 2005 and repainted with the same Imron. The inside cockpit & FB paint is 2001 original and you can't tell the 10 year old from the 5 yer old. Flawless. Oh yeah, and you can wet sand it....the Katrina repair got some overspray on some of the new paint and I buffed it out with 3M compound to a perfect gloss.

I'd never use anything else.

UV

Here is another discussion on the exact same topic.
Al

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/techn ... lgrip.html

I used Awlcraft 2000 on my B25 and was pleased with results.

I am using again on my B20 project and I will be even happier (better painter).

I would have used what ever they wanted after seeing their work. I have little experience with paint in general, but I think it is good advice to look at people's work and use whatever they are used to using.

I have seen stunning work in Imron, Awlgrip and Awlcraft. Never seen Alexseal in person.

Ian.

The owner of the diesel shop that I got my engines from just painted is 30 foot Shamrock Grand Slam with Alexseal. It looks really great. Has a great shine.

The order of the day: Any successful product company you would swear by that gets sold to another company will not be the "exact" same product within a year. In the words of UV, "the enemy of good is better". To the new owners, the definition of "better" is cheaper to make. Sell at the same price or higher.
I don't care whether it's paints, electronics or engines. Walter

i can say from my own boat that was once painted from rubrail up in awlgrip , hull sides in imron then top side sanded down and painted with endura . i prime bilge with awlgrip 545 primer and painted with awlgrip topcoat . flake in many places after first having spots then spots flake off .our yard uses all paints no particular choice but i can say imron does not hold up to solvents drop on it like in cockpit . a drop of actone eats right thru while endura is not affected . my boat has never been waxed in 10 years . while in slip hull sides are never washed with soap i just hose off salt with fresh water and the imron shines like it was painted yesterday.i have scratches on one side and will attemp to paint hull side with imron this year.

a drop of actone eats right thru

Not supposed to use the cockpit for a portable meth lab Bob.

Having seen alot in the boat paint biz over the last 30 years, 90% of issues were application issues and not manufacturing defects. Prep work by far was the major cause of bad finishes, but that being said for what its worth when the current Whaler project is ready for paint, I'm shooting Imron.

I know with the epa changes, I've seen things as simple as can engine enamel have issues. Many companies have had issues in comming up with new products that don't use banned materials in working well.

I also know that painters that do it for a living are a few sandwiches short of a picknic. I did it for two years and had enough with the voc's and chemicals. Many painters won't go out of their comfort zone because awlgrip is always what they shot and if your dealing with a local yard, you may have no choice with what they shoot.