Congressman has Ethanol Problem on his boat.

[IRGuy]

Peter...

THANK YOU!

[IRGuy]

Back to the original subject of this string..

The article mentioned above is on page 40 of the BoatUS magazinme which arrived in my mail today.. he experienced engine problems and his fuel tank is beginning to weep at some of it's seams.

The congressman (John Shadegg, R-AZ) says he "is extremely upset (about ethanol in gas damaging his boat) because he was not given any warning".. where has be been for the past 6 months? I will leave his other quotes for you all to read and extract from them what you will.

Also.. Lee Dana is quoted as saying that Bertram gas tanks built between 1961 and 1995 are vulnerable to ethanol gas damage.

The good congressman suggests that maybe the ethanol industry set up a fund to help those boaters injured by "undisclosed" ethanol in their fuel. (My thoughts are that taken literally, his last quote has holes big enough to drive a Bertram 31 right through them).

[bobbert66]

ALL I CAN SAY IS--

TYPICAL POL.

NOT IN TOUCH WITH REALITY AND JUST CARES ABOUT GETTING RE-ELECTED.

BOBBERT "THE OLD TIMER"

[Bruce]

The congressman (John Shadegg, R-AZ) says he "is extremely upset (about ethanol in gas damaging his boat) because he was not given any warning".. where has be been for the past 6 months?

Well nobody was given any warning of the impending problems.
If you go back on the old board when the northern boaters started grenading engines, there was much speculation as to what was causing the problems.
After quite some time, people like Walter helped figure out the cause.

The problem was ignored by the boating industry and when it hit the Journal it was more about the wealthy mans blues and not about the potential serious consequenses of running ethanol laced fuel.

Other than the people who frequent this board and some select boating people, go out and ask 25 people about ethanol.

They haven't a clue so why should the congressman?

But now he does know. So bombard his office and ask what he's going to do about it. If he ignores everyone, then we can refer to him as a do nothing.

[IRGuy]

I mentioned 6 months because as I recall I first began to see posts and maybe even an article occasionally on the ethanol damage concerns around that time, although it seems by then the guys in the LI Sound/NJ area had been experiencing ethanol related problems for a season or so.

Around Feb 06 I spoke with Bob Adriance of BoatUS (editor of Seaworthy Magazine) who said they had been "studying" the ethanol issue for over a year. The first post I recall seeing anywhere was in Oct 05.. so while the congressman might be able to claim ignorance in the very beginning, he certainly could have seen articles in the recreational boating public view in the past 6 months or so.

Here in coastal NC I have been surprised at how many of the people I have spoken with who know somehing at least about the basic issues with ethanol.. even though we don't have it here yet.

[CaptPatrick]

1st post here on the ethanol problem:

Thursday, 28 October 2004 (Old Board 816 posts...)

My local marina owner Jeff Bridges has a 1970 31 Bahia Mar with Gas engines. I took my 20 Bahia Mar to him for work when I got it a few years back.
I saw him today and he asked me if I was having any fuel problems with my boat as mine is a 69, the same vintage as his. I said yes, seems I have been finding more residue than I like in the fuel filter and have to change them often. He said he thinks the 10% Ethanol in our fuel is having a strange effect with the epoxy in his tank as he has had to redo his heads, his carbs, his hoses, and his fuel looks much darker than it should. Shortly after all that work,the engines and fuel systems are all gummed up again.

Strangely, I felt that way about the color of my fuel, I've had my carbs rebuilt twice in one season, and countless fuel filter changes.

He doesn't know what to do at this point short of rip out the fiberglass tank and replace it with aluminum. I've always preferred glass over aluminum.

Have any of you had a reaction similar, or even heard about an ethanol fiberglass reaction?

Walter

[In Memory Walter K]

Patrick- I was the first? Man, I guess what my ex-employees used to say about me is true. "Don't get him pissed off because he's not very forgiving and doesn't let go". Walter

[Bruce]

IR,
Always take the side that people are ignorant of a problem unless they tell you otherwise.

One thing I learned from doing the radio talk show for 2 1/2 years is people really are that ignorant. I don't mean ignorant in a stupid moronic kind of way.

Most have little time to educate themselves on whats going on around them and get what little they do know from short blurbs on the evening spin shows.

That's how politicians get away with the things they do.

We ran a contest for a week one time with a prize of 500 bucks if someone could answer 20 questions on current events over the last 6 months. After a week, no one got it.

Our signal covered Palm Beach, Martin, Broward, Some Dade, and internet streaming.

[IRGuy]

You make a good point.. I assumed that with this issue being so important and so much discussed in sites like this one and the 33 site that most Bertram owners would at least be aware there are several problems with ethanol gas.

I have felt from the beginning that this whole issue would be pretty much ignored by the political establishment until some poor soul has his boat blow up because of either an engine fire or fuel leaking into his bilge. BoatUS told me that the number of fiberglas tank boat owners was too small and the boats affected were too old for them to launch any type of major campaign. The Coast Guard took the same position.

Maybe this congressman will get some support from the boating community and at least bring this up with the pols who are responsible for this fiasco before a tragedy happens. Somehow I doubt this will happen.

[Bruce]

BoatUS told me that the number of fiberglas tank boat owners was too small and the boats affected were too old for them to launch any type of major campaign. The Coast Guard took the same position.

What you have to do is turn that statement around against them.

May I quote you Mr. Boat US or Mr. Coast Guard (insert names of those who you are talking to) to the local and national papers to say that since there are not enough fiberglass tank owners out there to be concerned with this problem that the ones that do own fiberglass tanks and their families are expendable because it is not worth your effort to head off a potential deadly fuel leak problem?

Would you please put your lack of concern in a letter to me so that I may have it published along with my explanation of the potential fire hazards that leaking fuel in a bilge can cause.

Oh and by the way, are you aware of the fact that marine tanks are vented to the atmosphere and with Ethanol will attract moisture that will sink to the bottom of the tank and cause internal corrosion and eventual tank leaks?

So may I also tell the owners of aluminum tanks that you are not concerned with their safety also?

If you won't send that letter to me, may I have my contact at the news paper contact you directly for a quote?


At this point you can usually hear their sphinchter tightening to the point of implosion.
It works great. I did it many times to politicians we had on as guests and once to a Psychologist while discussing the shrinking effects of Ritalin on kids brains that was non reversable.
We thought the guy was gonna come unglued.


He hung up when I told him I could give him the name of a good Psychiatrist to help him with his anger issues.

[In Memory Walter K]

Bruce-You're absolutely right. I passed along the Coast Guard's letter telling me that "powerful forces are at play". Sadly, it did not find it's way into the article. I did however have the article printed up and wrote the following as an attachment which I plan to distribute to people of influence, many of whom will crap their pants to find I got to the WSJ since they hadn't paid any attention to me earlier. Now they'll know I'm not going away...I may become their biggest nightmare.

"Here's what the article didnt tell you:"

"And it doesn’t matter whether you have a boat or not. If you have a lawn mower, leaf blower, snow blower, weed whacker, RV, outboard motor, ATV, motorcycle or a car or truck older than 1990, you’d better read this and take what you read seriously.

The introduction of Ethanol to our fuel as a replacement for MBTE was sold to us as a simple way to cut our dependence on foreign oil by 10% and was a cleaner, less toxic substiute for MBTE. Here’s what you weren’t told...by anyone:

Ethanol is a solvent. It is pure alcohol. It will dissolve any sort of residue in your metal gas tanks and that residue will get sucked up into the engine it is running. If your gas tank is plastic or fiberglass and is not a brand new one (post 1990) it will soften and permanently compromise the tank. Fuel filters on motors that have them will catch some of it. Simple engines (ie: lawn mowers, weed whackers, leaf blowers etc) will get their fuel systems gummed up necessitating carburetor rebuilding, fuel pump replacments and varied kinds of valve damage.

Solvents eat up gaskets, seals and hoses. It doesn’t happen right away but rubber is dissolved by exposure to alcohol, and that’s what Ethanol is. Again, leakage will eventually occur leading to engine failure. Leaking gasoline on a hot engine makes for fire and explosions.

Today’s gasoline with 10% Ethanol content has a shelf life of only 60-90 days. Remember when you were told to store your motors with a full tank of gasoline over the winter so there was no chance of condensation forming water in your tanks? All you were encouraged to do was add a bit of stabilizer to the fuel. Today it is recommended that they be stored with the tanks empty! Why? Because it has been found that Ethanol attracts water from the atmosphere and when enough water accumulates, a thing called “Phase Separation” takes place...(usually in 60-90 days). The Ethanol and the water it has collected separate from the gasoline and sink to the bottom of your tank. No amount of shaking or stirring can blend them back together again. Since gasoline is lighter than water it floats to the top. Unfortunately, your motor’s fuel intake tube is always at the lowest part of your tank, so guess what your engine is sucking up...water! That’s why we’re advised to store with tanks dry. Engine running rough? Won’t idle smoothly? Water doesn’t burn. Gasoline. At $3.00+ a gallon,use it or lose it.

What are you supposed to do with the gasoline you’ve been advised to empty from your tanks? Have you ever tried? No one will take it from you. If they will, they’ll charge you to do it! We have tried to do it legally and have been told there are only two days in the year that hazardous waste is collected in our community. Does anyone realize the volatility of gasoline? The fumes from one cup of gasoline in a confined area has the explosive power of a stick of dynamite! All it takes is one spark. We personally had to store 30 gallons of gasoline in cans in our driveway throughout the winter awaiting Spring’s Hazardous Waste Day. We couldn’t bring ourselves to do damage to the water table by dumping it. I hate to guess how many would do the same...and wonder if I would do it again myself.

This is not just a boating issue as this article seems to project. It is a public safety issue. It is an environmental hazard issue. A public health issue. It must be addressed. It seems the cure is more dangerous than the disease. Call, write, e-mail your local, regional and State representatives. The use of Ethanol in our fuel is mandated by NY State. California has already gotten rid of it. Who else are more environmentally conscious than Californians? They figured it out early. So can we."

I don't know if it will do any good, but I can honestly say I'm not going to sit quiet and bitch like so many so often do. When I bitch, I'm going to make sure someone hears me. Hopefully I'm motivating others to do the same. Thanks for your encouragement. You understand the importance of this issue on many levels and I appreciate it.

Walter

[Bruce]

Walter,
Thanks for your hard work. Its not easy, but keep it up.