31 with Yammie350s

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 14th, '10, 23:02

10% is the guide. the 350hp yamaha will use 35gallons per hour at cruise. cruise speed is around 4200rpm at 31 -32 mph.we have one still in the water for test. 32 EX. everglades.twin 350 yamaha 2010.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 14th, '10, 23:30

99 gph for a 36 Grady at cruise?

Man those numbers seem a little off.

So, you could run from Oakdale to the FI inlet and back and burn up 200 gallons of fuel. Or, burn 100 gallons of fuel running to Ocean Beach or Fair Harbor for dinner.

The GW 36 carries about 370 gallons of fuel and cruises at what, about 32 knots? That means that a 36 GW with 370 gallons of fuel has a range of about 140 miles, if we assume it uses every last drop of fuel in the tanks.

I would verify those numbers.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Dec 15th, '10, 07:15

Modern fuel injection or not, its still almost a 327 stuck on its end. It takes some btu's of fuel burn to develop that HP.

Hey look at it this way, somebody has to marry the fat chicks.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 15th, '10, 07:28

Bruce wrote:Modern fuel injection or not, its still almost a 327 stuck on its end. It takes some btu's of fuel burn to develop that HP.

Hey look at it this way, somebody has to marry the fat chicks.

I guess that's the truth!

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Dec 15th, '10, 08:37

I respectfully disagree.

The correct ballpark reference is that the engine will use 10% of its rated HP at WOT and not cruise.

You can see that in all the performance reports and basic logic. A 350hp Yamaha will be use 35gph at WOT and not cruise.

It simply can not be cruise. The 36ft Grady White/ Everglades burns roughly 11gph at cruise each engine with triples.

It does not make sense, if each OB burned 35gph at 4000 rpm while the boat was going 35mph it would get .25mpg at cruise?????

You can see this clear as a bell in any report

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/prod ... i-f350.pdf

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 15th, '10, 09:11

the slight problem here is we use the factory guide line much the way a diesel boat runs about 8% off the pin. i felt it was not neassary to explain myself.we sold every boat we were alloted this year .we even so our tounament rigged oakdale yacth 35 everglades. people who come thru that door usually have been to other dealers now they are looking at top of the line as a matter of fact sometimes 30% more then a proline.that being said we run the yamaha`s at 800rpm off the pin that is every boat is propped to run at 5000rpm so we test and reccomend this rpm to put the 350 in the upper mid range torque curve. the burn numbers are high but this 32ex is very similar in salon, galley and stand up head of a fbc bertram only a much better layout with stove,mico/coffee,refrig,curve teak table in salon.abeautiful top of line express doing 32mph really not bad for the size.capt. bone your welcome to come it is not our boat belongs to a customer but your free to go on board. yes it would burn much less at 25mph but people who buy these boat don`t buy a mercedes sl 550amg and drive for economy.i don`t have numbers for 25 mph but i can come up with them in the spring on 2011 models.

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Dec 15th, '10, 09:25

Some people like to run their boats at WOT and I guess if thats what they call their cruise then that is their cruise but is not an accurate representation of fuel burn.

I still stick by my comment that an OB will burn 10% of its rated HP at WOT and not cruise.

"each 350hp yamaha will use 10% of hp at cruise. 32 everglades ex uses 35 gallons per hour x 2 (70gph) at cruise of 30mph"

I still disagree with this and I state that a 32ft Everglades will burn 22gph total for both engines at 31mph at 3500rpm for 1.42 mpg.

The fuel burn number with the 350hp Yamahas is pretty good compared to straight inboards.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 15th, '10, 10:14

The everglades spec sheet shows

3500 rpms 24 mph 22.7 gph 1.06 mpg

5000 rpms 41.5mph 41.7 mpg 1 mpg

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Dec 15th, '10, 10:21

The everglades spec sheet shows

3500 rpms 31 mph 21.8 gph 1.42 mpg

5000 rpms 48.1mph 44.2 gph 1.09 mpg

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/prod ... 350tur.pdf

I was using the 13,000k CC as reference. I see the 32 Express and 35CC are also listed.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 15th, '10, 11:16

That's the 32CC not the 32EX

http://www.evergladesboats.com/pdf/320EX-glance.pdf

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 15th, '10, 12:12

i try to write these post as a impartial observer so i used the everglades ex as the most compatable boat to a 31 fbc .

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 15th, '10, 12:33

I still want to know for sure if the GW 36 burns 99 gallons an hour. It just seems like a ludicrous number because the range makes the boat essentially useless.

I can tell you that the 32 Regulator with twin 300 Yammies cruised at close to 40 mph and did a little better than a mile a gallon at that speed. I just do not believe these numbers.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 15th, '10, 12:34

i not hear to fine fault but we really are have to compare apples to apples and the fuel consumption given by the yanmars 4 cyl. are at a much slower speed .there is a enormous differance in a a 31 bertram at 25mph and 32 . i am using mph and gallons per hour because thats what the yamaha onboard computors are set at . the guys never run at 25mph unless water conditions dictate that. however it must be noted that the twin/triple 350 are affected by weight by a much wider margin then diesel.you take those same engines and put the on a lightweight 31 contender cc ,wow much better fuel economy. we have just about every popular cc made here and i can honestly say the yammies will run a honest 33% more fuel enconomy then wot at cruise now bear in mind thats our cruise about 4200rpm. i cannot give you speed because all boats vary. it must also be said in my humble opinion after extensive testing this ex will run in any water conditions that the 31 bertram will .i would imagine you could take that 70gallons a hour and cut it back 33% but at a slower speed/rpm.you might use brewster`s numbers to compare because his were at 28knots loaded boat at least the same weight as the ex with all that ice.

look at all the nice fishing features on this boat

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Dec 15th, '10, 12:37

Even using the 32 EX the numbers are really good and better then any gas inboard.

3500 - 24.0 mph - 22.7 gph - 1.06mpg

4000 - 31.4 mph - 27.9 gph - 1.13 mpg

4500 - 37.0 mph - 35.0 gph - 1.06 mpg

5000 - 41.5 mph - 41.7 gph - .99 mpg

WOT (6100) 51.4 mph - 67.8 gph - .76mpg

My whole point of this long winded exchanged was to prove that OB power is just about as efficient as you can get with gas power. Alot of the old myths that are prepetuated dont apply to modern engines. The ability to trim the engines for max efficiency is really nice and OB power is does make sense for some people.

"each 350hp yamaha will use 10% of hp at cruise. 32 everglades ex uses 35 gallons per hour x 2 (70gph) at cruise of 30mph"

"10% is the guide. the 350hp yamaha will use 35gallons per hour at cruise. cruise speed is around 4200rpm at 31 -32 mph"

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 15th, '10, 13:45

capt. bone i certainly agree with you on trimming the boat for a better fuel burn and i feel these new outboards will out perform gas inboards with the addition of more space utilization. this is also something that must be added-----no arguments; aside from cost like i am telling you two plus two is five" triple yamaha 350 will use less fuel for a given speed above 30 mph then twin 350 in the same 31 plus boat "i am no engineer but that third engine changes everything.to strip down a 31 betram into a cc and power with a pair of 350 -----ok but to stick them on a oem 31fbc and compare with modern diesels ,i say no contest in fuel economy.
jspiezio that 36'gw is one beautiful,well built boat and is also very big so triple 350 have to work a bit . i am not sure if it is in any of the yards but i will check. we built the powerhead on the starboard side ,let go after 10 hours .yamaha cover everything and a good company for standing by there product. we tested it with customer and computor readout showed 99gph now take a easy ----this big boat was traveling near 50 so bear in mind we went 50miles on 99gallons. pull back those sticks to a reasonable speed for a boat this big and you cut back at least 30%

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Dec 15th, '10, 13:52

Bob, there was an article in soundings that I just read about a 37' Contender that ended up 200 feet up in the bushes this summer. Triple Yamaha's.

You familiar with that debacle?

Must have been a wild ride!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 15th, '10, 14:00

yes i was there that is the island in front of oakdale yacth. we have great south bay SEA TOW headquarters on the east end of the yard . thats how we get all the blown yamaha outdrives to repair . thats why i mention in the above post about the big cc still have to stay in the same bouy line as the inboards . they venture in lower water and they see us at 3500.00 a pop.-----------wecome to america

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Dec 15th, '10, 15:17

look at all the nice fishing features on this boat

No, I will not.
I'd be happy if I never had to look at it again, ever.

The way I see it, thats one of the ugliest boats I've seen posted on this site. It reminds me of when someone is unhappy w/ the standing room under their B25 hardtop, and they chop the pilasters and add 10" to em, which throws off everything, but leaves you with some really nice big ol windows.
Also kinda has the look of a commercial crabbing boat w/ the glassed over plywood house, from the downtown Card Sound area...but w/ a better paint job.
Everglades has done some good things, and I'm sure this boat'll do everything- including wipe your ass for you, but I think I'd rather wipe my own....

Come on Bob, post a pic of Pheonix and heal my eyes...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 15th, '10, 15:51

ok buju you know i have the utmost respect for your talent in the wood finishing world and i used your prep. technique on exotic wood , so bear with me trying to find same weight ,approx. size with twin yamaha 350 to compare and mainly to keep people from looking at those damm foolish charts . puplish by wantabee`s under ideal conditions .i love that last one on the EX .6100 rpm yea ok in a barrel with aircraft 101 octane real gas!!!back to reality;you notice i did not post my fuel burn. i would imagine the site would be banging on capt. patrick`s door.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Dec 15th, '10, 23:56

Ahhhhhhh, thank you sir.
Thats easy on the eyes, almost makes all the Yamaha charts bearable.

I do hope you know I'm just ribbing ya a little... And thanks for the kind words.

But I do find that to be a butt ugly boat. Been trying not to look at a couple of em on the side of the road down here for a while now.

I think a good looking boat in that class would be the Pursuit 34 Drummond series, theres a sportfish and a howdy special.
Nicely designed boats, really well though out and executed, and pleasing to the eye.
Love the center island on 'em to with a big freezer, tackle station, rumble seat, the works.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 16th, '10, 08:04

Buju wrote:Ahhhhhhh, thank you sir.
Thats easy on the eyes, almost makes all the Yamaha charts bearable.

I do hope you know I'm just ribbing ya a little... And thanks for the kind words.

But I do find that to be a butt ugly boat. Been trying not to look at a couple of em on the side of the road down here for a while now.

I think a good looking boat in that class would be the Pursuit 34 Drummond series, theres a sportfish and a howdy special.
Nicely designed boats, really well though out and executed, and pleasing to the eye.
Love the center island on 'em to with a big freezer, tackle station, rumble seat, the works.

Very nice looking boat. I have to agree with Buju on this, those Everglades are just ugly. They are well built boats, but (butt?) ugly.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 16th, '10, 08:11

bob lico wrote:back to reality;you notice i did not post my fuel burn. i would imagine the site would be banging on capt. patrick`s door.

Okay...I'll bite.

Bob, why won't you post your burn?

...and now that I am curious, what is your burn?

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Dec 16th, '10, 19:59

Great question Sim.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 16th, '10, 21:27

a group went to norwalk international boat show oakdale yacth is #1 in northeast sales one thing lead to another and gentleman`s bet for lunch was on. not mentioning names but i ended up on a fuel burn bet with a twin engine regulator 27' or there about . ------------------i had lunch in babyon restarant and could not rememeber vic roy`s recipe so i had oyster`s rockerfellow -----ok but not the same.
unfair comparison because my 31 is not stock so fuel burn numbers are rather pointless.

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Dec 16th, '10, 21:40

I dont think there is a 31 on this board that is stock.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Dec 16th, '10, 22:17

mine is
was untill i started deck project and tank

i like pursuits too lots of dinero

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 16th, '10, 23:08

i am talking about hull modifications as well as engine locations and on and on . carl (sim) will drive the boat with bob h next year at greenport. they will explain.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 17th, '10, 09:38

Bob was nice enough to give me a tour of Phoenix and scratched the surface of the modifications he's done. Many many small modifications when all combined add up to more then the sum of the parts. His fuel burn numbers are significantly better then another b31 with the same engines.

When i first walked up to the boat my first thought was where are the air intakes? He's put a lot of thought into that boat!

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 17th, '10, 10:34

captbone wrote:Even using the 32 EX the numbers are really good and better then any gas inboard.

I wouldn't go as far as saying better than ANY gas inboard as the 6.2L LQ4 block has not been in the B31 yet, unless you meant strictly for the 32EX. I also do not recall anyone touching on the OB if propped for higher speeds, what happens when you get into adverse conditions that make the B31 have to run at no more than 15knts? Would those OBs have the torque to keep that power hungry hull at 15knts? The stroker small block would, torque/rpm values anyway. Just curious.

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Dec 17th, '10, 10:53

Bobs boat is a beautiful boat. You can see the attention to detail and love that went into the boat even in pictures.

I now understand why you cant compare it to other bertrams but dont understand the reason for keeping the burn numbers secret.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 17th, '10, 23:28

i really did not think the burn numbers would serve a purpose other then "if you put a zillion hours into a project you can arrive at these numbers" what purpose would that serve. lets say just experimenting with the lenth of circular tube surronding the shaft took some effort. i arrived at 4" total this help quite a bit. a real 6" exhaust including mufflers and no restrictions also helped, the list is on and on .

here is the shaft log.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 18th, '10, 07:54

Bob how much further back are the rudders from the stock position?

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 18th, '10, 09:45

Rudders look like they are in same position...just bigger.

I believe the motor is moved several inches toward the stern (for Trim), lowered to within a finger thickness of the bilge and the shaft angle was reduced to 12-1/2deg from 15deg. Strakes where longboarded to produced straight lifting lines with less turbulance. Shaft log extended to reduce circular friction, shaft turbulance or maybe just keep clean water moving back to the props. Wheels are Ellis style..big arse blades that have lots of cup all around (variable pitch??) and increased rake to condense the push. Weight has been removed from the from bow to keep boat trimmed without those dam Trim tabs.... Batteries dead low in the bilge between motors for better COG. Full flow 6" exhaust allow motors to breathe very well...

A lighter, well trimmed boat with less resistance underwater, shaft angles(thrust-line) matching that of the water flow to maximize push and reduce bow being pushed down...along with lots of torque to push those wheels at low speeds ( I tried something like that on my boat...couldn't get boat on plane...they just eat power) so it can just pop out of the water...the boat has to fly once it's out taking advantage of the Rake and Cup it should just be higher out of the water and faster with less actual effort on the motors...kind of like going into overdrive...so motors are not working hard reducing fuel consumption...

Think I touched on the major points you have mentioned...

My stab in the dark would be a 1/3 better then the average...2.2 mpg at cruise?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 18th, '10, 10:26

omg carl you know my every move along with big change to fuel temp and forced COLD air induction. kind of like going into overdrive-------exactly . boat planning surface doen not touch the water until just under the pillars or back edge of side windows thus reduced surface water friction and dry boat.bottom surface should be around the texture of 100grit sandpaper too smooth will increase friction dramaticly.time to plane 4 to 5 seconds and once on top pull back to 2025 rpm at 30mph.
i can change a 454/427 mercruiser dramaticly but it would take some footwork.here she is at speed look at trim angle.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 18th, '10, 11:52

here is a photo of inside the bilge view of f/g tube over shaft (shaft log). this is the same as capt. patricks in tip photo`s. same procedure just angle and amount of protrusion is changed.i am answering some of the PM i received.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 18th, '10, 12:12

Just because I am not following your lead does not mean I am not listening, learning and trying to absorb what you have done.

For me, it's been quite the challenge these past few years to just keep the boat in the water... and running. I thought boats were holes in the water that you keep tossing money into. Kids have boat s beat...kids are dam expensive and we didn't even get them into High School yet...never mind College...yikes!!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 18th, '10, 12:27

what i have done over the years is anounce "this is it this boat is our vacation, relax area, fishing boat, family entertainment center. i am not going to piss away money taking the family to aruba here is. i will also take your friends to fire island so i don`t have to hear you whin.
the children/grandchildren love it. mainly hanging out on fire island and the little ones playing on bay side beach.olders teens on ocean and socializing at ocean beach .all and all a great way to get out of the house for about 8 bucks worth of fuel.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 18th, '10, 19:11

carl your a very smart man especially the complete understanding of what props do and don`t do . we also forgot to mention zf vulcan drive and steel sae. adapter ;
absolute 0 slip between engine and gears.
back to outboards one guy wanted to do his owm yamaha 350 hp maintenace last year . he came to the office and complained about " something wrong with lower unit" -----------he reverse the bottom magnetic drain plug with the upper vent plug . magnetic plug in vent hole will go in and contact metal close but will not seat . vent will fit perfect in drain plug--------------lower unit was running on saltwater entire season . one more time saltwater is not a good lubricant.

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Dec 19th, '10, 00:11

If someone is not experienced with maintaince or runs hard aground, they can damage their diesel inboard just as easily as their outboard.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 20th, '10, 09:32

bob lico wrote: we also forgot to mention zf vulcan drive and steel sae. adapter ;
absolute 0 slip between engine and gears.

Bob, I'm sure you have a list of things we do not know about. I was only touching on the high points I recall hearing.

I'm not familiar with the Vulcan Drive...I'm also not a huge fan of "0" slip...hope your at least using Brass keys at the coupler and wheel as a Weak Link (a fuse so to speak) in case of a hard landing you shear the key...better replacing a Key then having a Tranny or Motor Crank going. As you are the go to guy for OB repair, we used to be the Go to guys for higher end offshore boats. That was till everyone wanted a Rolls Royce on a Hyundai budget...

Same here, that's the main reason I still have her. It's our summer home, our "get away" and some years our vacation...although this year Fire Island cost us a bit more then 8 bucks in fuel...but worth every penny as kids had a blast...so did I and the friends we went with.

Too bad our vacation coincides the same time as the Bertram Get together...

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 20th, '10, 13:22

Bob, I have to be sure that I am doing the math right but a quick calculation shows you are getting 4 to 5 miles a gallon. That is super sweet and I have to admit I am jealous.

Goober · Post by **Goober** » Dec 29th, '12, 21:06

Mike ....glad u somewhat settled this discussion with ur numbers My 31 fbc with 170 yanmars at 2800 and 22/24 knts burns 10 to12 gals per hr .. I don't care how they figure their mpg or gpm. My gps says I ran 100miles and the fuel pump says she burned 44 gal that's real close to 2.3 miles per gal keep in mind my small engines with clean bottom.I am real happy with my numbers

Goober · Post by **Goober** » Dec 29th, '12, 21:22

Goober wrote:Mike ....glad u somewhat settled this discussion with ur numbers My 31 fbc with 170 yanmars at 2800 and 22/24 knts burns 10 to12 gals per hr .. I don't care how they figure their mpg or gpm. My gps says I ran 100miles and the fuel pump says she burned 44 gal that's real close to 2.3 miles per gal keep in mind my small engines with clean bottom.I am real happy with my numbers. That's 1.7 kmpg.

With the 454's I was at 3000 rpm (right before secondaries opened), 18 knots, 25.5 gph total.

That's 0.7 kmpg.

If the secondaries ever opened, a shark fishing trip would have used a tank of fuel......

Goober · Post by **Goober** » Dec 30th, '12, 09:44

Mike''s numbers are rite on my31 fbc has170 yanmars at 2800 and 22/24 knts she is burning about 10/11 gals per hr which is about 2.3 mpg ur numbers and mine are only 1/2 mile different and u have a bunch more hp forget wot or trolling or whatever I measure fuel from when I leave the dock till I get back . Those numbers won't lie

Goober · Post by **Goober** » Jan 11th, '13, 21:42

[quote]Had 3 inboards and too many outboards to count since 1970 researched boats for 3 yrs and came up with a 31 fbc and 4 banger yanmars as my best option Livin in south Carolina it's along ride to deep water fuel cost. Is a main issue[ /riding 50 miles one way Even tho i get 2 .2 / 2.3 mpg At 22 knts im lucky and happy i bought a bertram 31 because it is in my humble opinion the best ride out there Why by a bertram then try to unbertram the damn boat quote]

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Jan 11th, '13, 22:13

he said bottom dollar was 18-K http://honolulu.craigslist.org/kau/boa/3455750420.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 11th, '13, 22:19

Legally speaking a perfect closing argument "if it ain't broke don't fix it ".

bertram31.com

31 with Yammie350s

Re: 31 with Yammie350s

Re: ?

Re: 31 with Yammie350s

Re: 31 with Yammie350s

Re: 31 with Yammie350s

Re: 31 with Yammie350s

Who is online