bertram31.com

HI to all , this came up on ebay, i think i remember reading a bit about these boats here somewhere , thought it might be of interest to someone,
ps not affiliated to it in any way

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155992451136?m ... media=COPY

I saw this too. Quite the project! Were there any differences in the spec for these boats?

A 31 bertram in Arizona.
The sun literally never sets on the bertram empire

You are buying just the hull. No engines. That's a lot of money for just the Hull. It is worth half the price.

Not sure if these were built to different specs. I do know that the ones built for the Military were heavier. I believe the hulls were thicker on those.

I believe at one time Bob Lilco said his was built to Military Standards and it showed someplace in the Hull number.

Could they possibly even build them any stronger????

Our first 31 was a police boat bought from the va state police ,they had several we bought the only one that functioned.I wish I could have a sedan but we have enough boats

Neil,

I have a 3,80 inflatable with a 15 yamaha 2 stroke, a 4,25 fiberglass fishing boat with a 25 yamaha, two stroke too, I have a Bertram 28, I have an inflatable dinghy in the Bertram, I have more boats than the mean European, American, Asian,could envisage (not cost wise, quantity wise) I'm happy to play with the sea and some few times push my luck a bit!
Now that I boasted enough I realize the 3,80 inflatable is no more, however the 15 yamaha stays with me...
I have kept 3-4 outboards from the 2 stroke era, small but light and fast...
I recently sold the 2,5 suzuki of my dinghy, I decided I'll start using the oars, anyway at that hour of the night, returning from the taverna and nightclub etc etc, you cannot safely start any motor, I mean you cannot even unsafely!

Electric start….you may not get where your going, but you’ll get there fast.

The problem with rowing with oars is your facing the wrong way and don’t know where your going till you get there.

Carl, you cannot have a battery in those little boats, especially the inflatables which are true inflatables, not RIB's.

As for not knowing where I'm going, well, you got a point there, I mean you must know things!! haha!!

Yannis wrote: ↑Jan 10th, '24, 03:10 Carl, you cannot have a battery in those little boats, especially the inflatables which are true inflatables, not RIB's.

As for not knowing where I'm going, well, you got a point there, I mean you must know things!! haha!!

Of course, you could... it's just not practical to have a battery at times. Then again if you had a battery you could run a compressor to blow up the raft if it should leak.

Carl we are with you on this one we had a little battery on our kayak to run the live well to catch bait

I understand your situation may be different.

For a 2m dinghy it is pointless to carry a battery just to start a 2.5hp engine. Besides, the longest distance any such dinghy will travel is max 100m. From the beach to the boat.
When I said that there is no safe way to start a motor at night, I meant there is a possibility of an accident with the prop, not that we can't pull the rope and start it.

Yannis wrote: ↑Jan 11th, '24, 01:43 When I said that there is no safe way to start a motor at night, I meant there is a possibility of an accident with the prop, not that we can't pull the rope and start it.

Oh, gotcha. Ok then I have 2 words for you, Jet Drive.

Yannis

I am surprised the powers to be over in Greece allow you to own a oil sucking, Polluting 2 stroke.

Now rowing, you should get a tax break for being pollution free.

Carl, the jet drive will save my toes but will break my back (to lift into the Bertram).

Tony, the 2,5 suzuki was 4 stroke. The other various two strokes I have are legal, who still has them can use them, you can no longer buy new two strokes.

If you ask me, however, they should have allowed two strokes up to 30 hp. It is stupid to have to carry the important weight difference in these small outboards which are always carried by hand and moved around. As for the pollution it is minimal, I was consuming no more than a gallon during the whole summer in that little 2.5. Stupid law.
Same for a larger dinghy with 9.9 or 15, it is silly how many times one has to carry - mount and unmount - these outboards..
The 4 stroke are so damn heavy it becomes almost unpractical...I repeat, the gas consumption of these little boats is infinitesimal, they are dinghies that carry people from a to b, that are no more than a few hundred meters apart, they should have made an exception to this stupid law.

Remember the days when the refits of the 31 were in high gear, you couldn't buy a bare hull for 40k. Junk gas boats where approaching 100k and old tired diesels 150k and up.

A bare Boston Whaler Montauk 17 in Greece, costs 57,000€ without the motor.
With a 100hp it goes up to 70,000€.

And, at the same time, people want to buy a perfectly functional and safe Bertram 30ish for 30-50-60 K !
I’ll burn mine but will never sell it that low...

Yannis, I think it has to do with boats of this size being more of a commitment than a trailerable boat that fits on the side of your house.

Carl, you could be right if people didn't spend 300-400K in huge RIBS...
Over 9-10 m. With 2-3-4 outboards. That surely don't fit in the garage or the side of any house...

It all depends on the size of your garage or the size of your yard

I have tried so many times to understand the reason why people buy these huge ribs.

To start with, almost none of them sells for less than 100K, so the claim that they are economical is not too credible.
Then, comes speed. I understand that this is a true benefit, but could speed alone be a reason to spend 200-300-400 K on an inflatable?
Then, there is the factor of practicality. You almost always have it stored at a yard near the water... on a trailer...you call the guy on Friday at 3pm, at 4pm your boat is rinsed clean and on the water, your tanks filled, your cooler full of ice, you arrive, you hop in and off you go for your weekend.
On Sunday evening you return at the yard and you just hand the keys over to the boy, they pull your boat, rinse it, store it until next Friday, no hassle for the owner. A series of events not easily performed by a similar (or even smaller) fiberglass boat, for which you need a permanent marina slip, you go through the process of mooring each time you go in and out, ropes, cleaning etc, all by yourself...the fact that you can live-aboard the fiberglass boat doesn't seem to play, as the RIB owner either owns a summer house at the destination point, or simply goes to the usually expensive hotel...

So, finally, the huge expensive RIB is just a fast commuter. Nothing more, nothing less. Which, on top of its inherent speed, offers the practicality of use for people usually irrelevant with the sea, usually people with very little free time and fat wallets.
That is why, in the same logic, another type of boat has emerged...the fiberglass fast commuter, useful for nothing else but to go fast from a to b, the Axopar type, that sells like crazy. Fast like the rib, but way less expensive to buy and equally practical, trailerable and the rest...

I tend to believe that our boats cannot command a high reselling price because their concept is outdated.

He who has money gets a big expensive yacht with a permanent skipper, or a RIB that saves him from all the hassle like explained above, or, for the guy with a limited budget a 15-25 foot trailerable fiberglass boat will offer swim and fish opportunities at very low running cost and very low maintenance hassle.
How many people are there that are willing to bust their golfs with huge projects like our type of boats need, high maintenance costs, countless hours to fix and improve this or that? And how many are there out there who will spend the coin we think our boats are worth, just to enter this kind of boat life that they not even enjoy? Just us I’m afraid...

Yannis wrote: ↑Jan 17th, '24, 00:13 I have tried so many times to understand the reason why people buy these huge ribs.

Yannis- Your area seems to be huge RIBS, my area is humongous "Center Consoles" with a dozen outboards hanging off the back. I too do not see the allure, but think I understand why people buy them. The reason is neither deep nor complex but simply they want them and can afford them.

different use cases for different people....

I grew up with the parents owning a big blow boat, left home on friday night stayed on the boat till sunday. While there, If there was no wind they stayed at the dock, if there was too much wind they stayed at the dock, if there were just the right amount of wind, most of the time they stayed at the dock..... looking back at it, it was their multi-bedroom cottage on the water.

I lost my mind..... I got to know fishing boat owners at the dock and hopped rides any time I could, ended up crewing for a charter captain.


you've got to have a reason for a bigger boat

In 1978 we bought a 12 year old Oday Mariner, 19' sailboat, to use on The Great South Bay. My son was a year-and-a-half old and my daughter wasn't born yet. As they were growing up, we used the boat to take them across the bay to the beach, usually twice every weekend from June to September. Now we only use it a few times a year, usually when the grandchildren are visiting. The boat fits in my garage for winter storage, so my only costs are bottom paint, rent on the slip, and what the marina charges me to put up and take down the mast. From what we see at the marinas where we keep our two boats, many of owners of the small boats only use their boats a few times during the summer. The larger boats, at the marina where we keep our Bertram mostly serve as summer cottages on the water.

Interesting...

I believe climate, geography, wealth, age, vacation duration etc, all these criteria and many more, dictate more or less the type of boat one will choose. From the monstrous CC or RIB, to the yacht, to the sailboat, to the trailerable skiff and so on...

It’s like when you pick a station wagon over a convertible two seater over a truck over a sedan car.

The point here is that as we are all describing how people in our respective areas behave with their choice of boats, we fail to conclude that our being completely satisfied with our choice of owning an old legendary, more or less reliable boat that needs lots of time and resources to fulfill its role, any role that each assigns to it, we progressively became the minority.
And that our concept of boat no longer is a dream concept for the vast majority of current or prospective boat owners. Hence the low resale value.

My buddy with the 30 Albemarle sold it and purchased a 10m RIB with two 200hp zukis. He said, he has little time left to fend off problems or have to pay for them...he prefers to jump in, start the engines and have within a one hour radius all the sea related alternatives that he wants, while at the same time guarantee that at dusk he will be back home as he no longer cruises at 20 or 25 knots but rather at 35 or 40. Can’t blame him...

In South Florida I see a tremendous number of larger open fisherman style boats with multiple outboards. Most are spending time on a lift or a trailer. However when they do get used, those owners seem to want to go very fast to the fishing grounds, which may be as far as across the Gulf Stream 50-60 miles and back in the same day.

When I see these same boats in the Bahamas, they are typically loaded with family, kids, inflatable floaties, and a loud stereo; oh and the wife is rockin the silicone big time...with the radar always spinning, that's mandatory somehow. Most of those guys fly their wives and family in, rent a house for the week, burn over in their go-fast boat. I'm not sure who they are impressing really.

I'm kinda glad I'm past that stage in life where I get to use the boat for a week or two then hustle back to the job. The thing that I ponder is where is everyone getting 500k to a million dollars for these boats? Has the job market changed that much since I got out? Am I just an old man now?

Aside from that my other entertainment from my dock in the Bahamas is watching the big rental Cats grab a mooring ball in our harbour. I could video every single one and have a successful YouTube channel. Some are priceless.

Steve

The job market has changed. The just out of college people I was looking to hire back in early 2000's for $50,000 are not asking for twice that and more.

The whole market is on its head.

Just passed a new Chick a Fil they are building on the highway by me. They have a big sign up saying $16 to $26 an hour. Pretty good for high school kids who use to look for those jobs. The problem know is, these schools brainwash the kids telling them that they need to find an office job part time, that working at a fast food joint will not help them with their carreer.

At least with these boats, the owners seem to be able to operate them, especially when equipped with a joystick.