Splash... New and improved post with video Tue 7/7 @ 7

[Carl]

Friday was the day.



It was such a special day the Fleet Captain even put the flags up for me







The shop was closed on Friday, I took advantage of that day off by getting up regular time and heading to the boat by 5:30.
I had a laundry list of things to do, things to fit, things to check, things to test.
I probably could have waited till Saturday, but my friend who is a damn good mechanic was going away for the weekend. I kinda wanted him there to look things over, and if something went wrong, he's better then me at finding and fixing.



The plan was I'd be done when he made his way down after work at 7.
Put the boat in...check things out at the dock and if all looked good take her for a spin.



He got there a right on time, I was a little behind so he helped me get the last few things done as the wind started kicking up. Would have been nice to have a breeze during the day. While the breeze felt really good, I knew the weathermen were going to be right with their prediction of a severe late afternoon thunderstorm.



I already blabbed I was going in on Friday to too many people. After saying I'll be ready to go in the water in "a couple of weeks", "in a few days" for many many months, now I had to go in...




So we fired up the lift, they were putting the strap under her as I was finishing bolting down the tower...




















AND after a year and a half






Splash


With the wind kicking up I knew the idea of going into the slip to check out wasn't going to leave any time for a spin...so we checked out best we could in the well, then went for a quick spin.


Sorry, no pictures or video as there was lots of checking happening and a storm was rolling in...not the best conditions for a checkout ride.


Anyway, she idled her way out real nice, much quieter than expected, extremely smooth.

Brought throttles up to 2000 and we were doing pretty good, temps fine, exhaust pressure about 1lb but the chop and wind was making it tough to see out the windsheild, so I brought her around and headed back in than goosed her open. 20.5 knots at 2500 rpm and that is all she had. If these are 210's they should see 2600 WOT. Exhaust back pressure went up to 1-3/4 psi and then I was back in the harbor and had to bring her back down most of the way...we now had wind and gusts with lightning. So it was a quick pace back to the dock. and that was my ride.



I was a bit disappointed she didn't overrev as expected. 20" square wheels should have let me hit the no-load limit of 2850, especially as she's light with less than a half tank of fuel. Also wasn't happy to see backpressure go over the 1.5 psi max.



On a good note, even if I don't find anything wrong I should be able to bring the rpm up by just dropping a blade. I'm also pretty sure that I can divert some of the raw water from the dumps to bring down the backpressure till I redo the exhaust with risers. After putting motors boxs on I see I have a good amount of room to fit them.


So far I checked cable throw and she goes to 2850 with no load, so that seems good.







As much as I wanted to go back out the last two days...the boat needed to be organized enough so I can clean it enough to organize. If you saw it, you'd understand. I still have some electrical work to take care of, electronics need to be wired, maybe I'll put the batteries in their boxes and strap them down now. With hatches and boxes out in the weather so long, the wood tracks that hold up the center hatches need to be replaced before they let go.





...so that is it, it floats and it goes.

Some tweaking left to do for sure.

[Tommy]

Congratulations Carl, she looks great. My first ride ever on a B-31 was in 1973 on an Express model like yours, and I have always liked the way the helmsman is elevated yet still in the cockpit with all the crew. It's usually more fun working on the boat in the slip rather than in the yard; or at least the post-work refreshments are better while rocking a little.

[Stephan]

Carl-
Congratulations! Anybody who understands the effort involved would have cannon to accompany those flags.
I believe boats are never "done" you just have to decide to enjoy them as they are. It floats, it runs, the rest is just a matter of degrees (or RPMs).
Good to know you have room for options under the engine boxes. Can't wait to know what the solution is.
Regards,
Stephan

[Rawleigh]

WOW, congratulations! You earned that beer!

[Carl]

yeah... you're right Stephan!

We have a cannon someplace around the Club too.
I gotta speak to someone about that...no respect I tell you.

At least I got the flags...unless maybe he put them up for the 4th???
Nah, it had to be for me, he like me.


Floating, pulling away and getting back under my own power was a relief.
I'm hoping I can use the way it is for a bit to enjoy a little before having to really work on her again.
Aside from the pulling her back together, fluid changes, maintenance, and sprucing her up a bit.

As Tommy said...its alot better to work on them in the water than in the yard.

Thanks

[Yannis]

Congratulations Carl!

I put a Moet in the mail for you, just smash it on the bow when it arrives!
I wish you happy times on your “new” boat!

[pschauss]

Great news!!! Enjoy her. You have earned it.

[1962 31]

congrats glad it wasn't to eventful!!!
you said 2850 rpm did you mean 2650?? that's where mine fuel cut at in neutral and I can hit that wot in gear with the 20x22 3 blades I don't know the calculations from 3 to 4 blade

[Carl]

Tom-

From what I understand...and that is pretty limited,
Unloaded, in neutral, I should be able to spin the motors up to 2850. Mine will do that.

If they are 210's they need to push the boat and attain 2600rpm at WOT

I'd prefer to see them hit 2650.

In any case they only spun up to 2500rpm or could have been 2450...hard to say as I was coming into the harbor at that point.


I should gain 200rpm if I go to a 3 blade. That is good as I'd be at 2700 rpm...but with only a 20" wheel. I think the motor should be able to turn a bit more pitch and was surprised to only see it hit 2500. Anyway, I'll be shopping for 20 square 3 blades....If I find the extra hp I can always add cup.

And thats what I'm thinking.

[DanielM]

Congratulations! It had to be a great feeling to be underway after all that work.

It’s a boat (The Boat) so always plenty to work on. But I’m happy for you to be back on the water.

[Rocky]

Way to go Carl!
All the tweeks will come in time, the major things are behind you! Congrats, you must be anxious to get to the get in and go part. Sweet!

[Stephan]

Carl-
I have known many props that measured differently than they were labeled (including the ones I have now).
Any chance you might have been misled by some short marine fiction?
Best,
Stephan

[Carl]

I hear you Stephan, but these were new props that were brought to a tighter tolerance for a customer that never picked them up.

[Tony Meola]

Carl

Congratulations.

Looking good. You should be able to run those engines at 2300 all day long. If you are only off 150 RPM's it might be the props. I would tweek the 4 blade, take some pitch out of them. Then if they run up too much add cup.

[John F.]

Congratulations Carl.

[1962 31]

yours have the lucas cav pumps ?
i have a set of 20x20 3 blade if you want to try em

[Bruce]

Congrats Carl.

Many hours of enjoyment for you and the family.

[CamB25]

That's 100% success, Carl! Floats and moves under it's own power! WooHoo!

I'm glad to see you copied my upholstery design....invisible!

[Carl]

So I got her out again last night.

Ran her a bit at 2200...temps seemed a bit high to me, but cooled off quick when I idled down.

What are they supposed to run at? I was seeing 190 on the Starboard side and 195 on the port. When I got home and looked through the books I was surprised to see 180-203 in the manual and 210 and 205 as the max high temp. Different manuals, different temps?? I don't think I can get used to seeing temps that high and be comfortable.

I did a few short runs and saw temps didn't climb over that so I then brought her up to WOT, I hit 2650 on the Starboard and Port was still trailing a bit at 2500+/- on some runs.
I did this a couple of times...managed to grab a video. Actually a couple but most finished with the phone falling.

This was the best video but phone still fell before the last push to WOT. She sounds a bit loud as I had the rear motor hatch open to monitor exhaust back-pressure. Pressure stays under the 1.5psi till the last 200 or so rpm. Hoping a little water diversion will give me some additional cushion till I can rework the exhaust OVER THE WINTER.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnQLKcOGI3g


All in all I was pleased with this day out.
I think I'll treat the motors to some new hoses, fresh new impellors and some cocktails, I hear she likes 15w-40 with a dextron chacer!

[Carl]

yours have the lucas cav pumps ?
i have a set of 20x20 3 blade if you want to try em

Yes, they are the CAV pumps. One of the pumps was sent out by the shop John brought the motors to, the shop said the pump plate was setup for 210hp.

I'd love to try the 20 x 20 3 blade, but I'm pretty sure you said your 1-3/8" shafts.
In my infinite wisdom, I bumped mine up to 1-1/2" just in case I wanted to repower with more hp down the road. Also as I had shafts and this pair of wheels in stock. But in doing that I am finding few used 20" wheels for 1-1/2" shafts.

[Tommy]

The video looks and sounds great, Carl; and I swear the 31 throws a beautiful wake. I've found that videoing with the phone in the horizontal position makes it more stable and the image goes full-screen when posted. Congrats on enjoying the fruits of your labor of love.

[bob lico]

congratulation carl it was a long road you took. i will stop by on the way to working on the union NJ beach house. you have all the notes on my exhaust why did you not follow???????? ZERO BACK PRESSURE. redo during winter

[Carl]

. you have all the notes on my exhaust why did you not follow???????? ZERO BACK PRESSURE. redo during winter

Two VERY BIG reasons.

1- The motors are running take outs...I did not take them out, I did not see how they ran IN a boat under load.
Yes, they were checked out in a shop and I sent down some guys to check them out. BUT they had them running on a pallet. It proved they ran...thats about all. I NEEDED to see them run under load before dumping more money and time into them.

2- To make the risers I needed to have the motors in place along with floor and engine box to take measurements. I literally put the motor boxes back in the boat a couple of hours before I launched, then the boxes needed to be tweaked to fit. AKA cutting and grinding. If I had to make those exhaust parts now it could be weeks before I was done. Plus then the insulating blankets/wrap...I'd never get in

So between not knowing if motors would run and not having sizes to work with I took Option 2, use what I have and make it work.

[Carl]

The video looks and sounds great, Carl; and I swear the 31 throws a beautiful wake. I've found that videoing with the phone in the horizontal position makes it more stable and the image goes full-screen when posted. Congrats on enjoying the fruits of your labor of love.

Sideways for full-screen...thanks I didn't know that. Sideways- I couldn't prop the phone up with anything I had in reach, so went the other way. It stayed great up that way...till it didn't. I gave that Otterbox a workout.

Yes, wakes are nice. I can watch them for a good while with enjoyment.

[bob lico]

ok great answer and i agree i was worred that you were listening to the wanabe marine mechanics. fu-k surge tubes and all that other bulls-t you go up and over (at least 12" up from VERTICAL sprinkler head) gain at least 10 hp and sprinkler head will be there in perfect condition when both of us are in Bertram heaven.BUT most of all exhaust will be alongside chine leaving all kinds of room from engine gears to transom for storage----------SMART

[Tony Meola]

Carl

My 270's run around 180 to 185. When I push them up around 2400 they jump to 200 then settle back down.

Bye the way, Valvoline Blue or Rotella and nothing else for oil.

[Carl]

Bob- I can't promise I'll be moving the exhaust to the outside stringer. I'm kinda liking the big ol' 12" mufflers plus I'm getting tired of filling and drilling big holes below the waterline.
Besides, it would be real tough to match 30 year old paint job... alright, the last one or two are fluff answers. I'd need to see a benefit for the effort...storage space isn't cutting it just yet. AND if it did, then its hatches that need to be made too. Not a huge deal, but then drop in's also need to be made...

Tentative winter projects, exhaust elbow/riser and helm windshield.



Tony- so where do you run your motors at cruise? I did see the temps go up when I first bumped it up and I reached for the throttles, but before I had a chance to bring them down the needle dropped. I do not think I have ever seen temp gauges move like these do. I actually started to wonder if I really saw that happen. I'm thinking thermostat may have been stuck for a second as it dropped like a tach when pulling back on the throttles. I have a tough time swallowing 200 deg...I may have a 160 thermostat in my future. That is after I go through the motors cooling system and check all is good.
So Tony when you push to 2400 it rises to 200 and settles...how long before it comes back down? What happens when you go for WOT? Climbs to 200? or plus and settles? or you bring her back down before.
I'm thinking I'm cruising a bit over the 185...I'm not overthinking till I get through with some maintenance...but nice to know what others are getting.


Rotella or Valvoline, I assume the 15-40.

I have no problem asking for either of those...but I wonder why? I get they are full synthetics...I'm good going there. I'd definitely feel more comfy staying within the well-known brands as a "Just Because".
But I wonder why just those two and no other?

Yes, Cummins endorses Blue...not sure why, that rarely happens. Shell makes good lube for sure, but that one is not endorsed. Cummins tosses out the required ratings that need to be met and lots of other brands meet and exceed them, such as Mobil 1 and Amsoil signature just to name names. Personally, if I wasn't being recommended here to use a specific oil...I'd be most confident using a well know product that met all the requirements.



Not arguing...just wondering why.

[Tony Meola]

Carl

I usually cruise around 2200 to 2300. Wide open throttle it still jumps to 200 then settles back down. Does not drop quick, it takes about a minute or so. By the way, if you put 160's in there, make sure the temp still comes up to close to 180. They like to run warm.

Yes always 15w-40. They are not synthetic they are straight oil. I get the Valvoline blue at North Jersey Truck in Lodi, right on Rt. 46. $12 a gallon all the time. They are a cummins dealer. They also handle Rotella and I believe I saw a GM brand in there.

Why one of those, the Blue because Cummins recommends it. Either one because when Forked River Diesel put the engines in, they told me if I stay with those I would not have any worries. They are both common, easy to get and the Valvoline Blue is the cheapest oil I can buy.

If I ventured into Synthetic then I would through Amsoil in the mix. But no need to do that. In fact, Rotella now has a synthetic in the 15 to 40 weight. So I would go there also.

[Carl]

Thanks Tony!

I have 8 gallons of Rotella T4 sitting in the back of my Jeep with a case of ATF.

Looking over temps from others going back a bit, they do run a bit warmer then I am used to seeing. I am going to have a friend shoot temps and put a strobe on tachs to confirm the gauges for a piece of mind. I'll keep an eye on it and make sure it stays in that range before I do anything.

[capy]

So I got her out again last night.

Ran her a bit at 2200...temps seemed a bit high to me, but cooled off quick when I idled down.

What are they supposed to run at? I was seeing 190 on the Starboard side and 195 on the port. When I got home and looked through the books I was surprised to see 180-203 in the manual and 210 and 205 as the max high temp. Different manuals, different temps?? I don't think I can get used to seeing temps that high and be comfortable.

I did a few short runs and saw temps didn't climb over that so I then brought her up to WOT, I hit 2650 on the Starboard and Port was still trailing a bit at 2500+/- on some runs.
I did this a couple of times...managed to grab a video. Actually a couple but most finished with the phone falling.

This was the best video but phone still fell before the last push to WOT. She sounds a bit loud as I had the rear motor hatch open to monitor exhaust back-pressure. Pressure stays under the 1.5psi till the last 200 or so rpm. Hoping a little water diversion will give me some additional cushion till I can rework the exhaust OVER THE WINTER.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnQLKcOGI3g


All in all I was pleased with this day out.
I think I'll treat the motors to some new hoses, fresh new impellors and some cocktails, I hear she likes 15w-40 with a dextron chacer!

Carl,

Haven't posted in years but thought I would see what the gang is up to.....congratulations on your diesel repower.

Couple of points from my experience;

Calibrate the tachs if you have not already.

Voltage/generator tachs are very sensitive to resistance changes in the circuitry from the sender to the tachs. if you have small resistance changes between the port and starboard circuits, the readings will be off with out recalibrating to the crank.

Alternator sensing tachs can be finicky between small variations in the pulley diameters between alternator manufacturers, if one engine has a factory alternator and the other an aftermarket this could cause problems with readings, if not recalibrated to the main crank.

I have similar horsepower engines(216), with slightly more torque due to the dumptruck motors, but I run a 21dx19p 3 blade. My max NL speed is 2950 rpm, and under full load it is 2800 rpm. 21x19 has me right at these required engine speeds. At 2400 rpm, my cruise, I am doing 22.5 knots, 2300 gives me 21 knots. I think something is up if you are only getting 20.5 knots at full throttle, since you have less weight.

Props can turn inwards or outwards with corresponding differences in speed and handling.

Inward turning props will normally produce more stern lift, with higher cruise and full throttle speeds, at the sacrifice of reduced response and handling when docking and turning the boat on its own length. Usual cruise and full throttle speed increases 1-3 knots over outward turning props. Swapping wheels from port to starboard and cable push or pull to the gears, wil dictate which direction they turn.

I have turned mine in both directions, but have settled on outward turning cause the speed gains were not worth reduction in handling response while trying to dock in a wind against current situation, in a crowded marina.

Hope this was helpful.

[Carl]

Thank you Capy! It does help.

Your one of the members here that inspired me to go with the 210's. They had everything I wanted in a diesel like your 6-53's...just a bit lighter, smaller and hopefully no oil in the bilge aside from my spilling it goofs...had enough of that with the 440's.

Yes, a friend is going to shoot the motors with a strobe to verify tachs...he mentioned something about the ground for the sensor, so you guys might be right there. Glad to hear that.

I'm also turning a 4 blade wheel, so that eats 200rpm. I'm thinking if I can grab 100 here and 200 there the speed comes up to where it should be. I have some saying where I am is fast enough. True it might be, but I know what I should get and I'd like the boat to be able to achieve that...and then I can run easier if I want.

You are the first person I have ever heard of that has actually changed the rotation from outboard to inboard turning. Nice piece of info there for my memory bank.

Great to see you on the board, it has been awhile.

[sillverchevy]

Hi Carl,
I haven't posted much on the forum, I guess I really don't have much to offer. Many of the members here are so knowledgeable about their boats, engines, etc...me not so much...but I'm learning every day. I have a 1970 31 FBC, powered by twin 1996 Cummins 210 6Bt's. Gear are twin disc MG 5011 (1.44:1) 1 3/8 shaft, props are Michigan Dyna Jet 3 blade, 20x22. All equipment came when I purchased the boat 8 years ago. Carl, some information regarding the 210's:
I cruise 20 knots at 2000 rpm, 22knots at 2200, 24 knots at 2400, WOT 28 knots at 2600 stbd, 2575 port. I never checked WOT neutral to see if I can achieve the 2700 or 2800 rpm you fellas speak of. My temps are constant at 195 at all speeds/rpms...it will drop to 180-185 when idling back in. Temps seem consistent,I gave the cooling system a thorough cleaning last year after the port engine crept up to 205 twice...new strainers, heat exchangers, etc...thinking the temps would drop a bit. They did, but back to 195. Hope this helps, and Congrats on your boat.
Ron

[Tony Meola]

Cappy

Welcome Back. Glad to see all is well with you.

Ron

We all sure you can add more to this site than you realize. I am sure Carl found your post helpful. Besides sometimes we do have some fun.

[Mark]

Carl,
Congrats on getting your feet wet again. I’m sure it feels good to have your toes soggy. Now you get to use a little and tweak. I’m doing the same although mine is a little more like fix and use. The boat had Rotella T-4 and that is a little easier for me to get down here. No need to use synthetic. Watch for sales at Walmart or Tractor Supply. The surveying mechanic said to pick one of the 2 and stick with it. Don’t change back and forth.

With your mechanical aptitude, I’m sure you’ll have her squared away shortly.

Don’t forget when you go to fuel dock for first time and the dock hand goes to hand you the gas hose as he has done hundreds of times,,,,”no,no,no....not the gas! This boat burns oil now!”

Mark

[Carl]

Ron- Thank you that is very helpful information. I have a feeling the 4th blade is a big part of my issue, kinda dead weight being dragged around.

As to not posting often...why not chime in on any topic or start your own. Tell us what you like to do with the boat. Serious fishing, cruising, diving or jus howdy boating. It's all good.

I any case, I appreciate your chiming in...it helps to know I still have some work to do.



Mark-
I'm not sure why I thought everyone was running synthetic. Good to know the T4 is a good choice or me as the parts store I deal with carries it.


Yes today I grabbed the Big Hose....hmm, that does not sound right. None the less I made my First Trip to the Fuel Dock and got to use the Diesel hose. It felt good...also nice that it pumps much faster than the gas hose.



Interesting point...well to me anyway. I started my Diesel conversion about 15 years ago when I changed my fuel tank because of the ethanol in the gas eating the fiberglass, I decided to replace the Deck Fill with a Diesel one. That was the 1st part I changed. Also that year I had heard older Diesel motors that could not meet new emissions could not be installed and registered in boats. Around that time I was looking to buy 6-53's and thinking I couldn't register Boat with older motors in the future so I had my registration changed to Diesel. So that was the second part of my conversion.

[Dug]

Carl, that's a long term conversion! You clearly plan thoroughly and well in advance!! I am thrilled for you!!!

[Carl]

Carl, that's a long term conversion! You clearly plan thoroughly and well in advance!! I am thrilled for you!!!

Dug- - if I am one thing...it's patient.

Although now that this is semi crossed off my list...it is like painting one wall.