Bertram 25 conversion to an outboard powered CC

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 19th, '19, 19:08

some good progress was made tonight!!

I put the first deck panel in the boat along with the hatch cover so I could mark and fit the 2nd deck panel. I then created marks where the battery box bulkheads were and then cut out the opening for the bomar aluminum hatch which will cover the battery box. I'm going to have to fine tune the fit of the hatch frame as I think it is not straight and slightly off.

It is nice to see her starting to look like a boat again.

overall 2 deck panels test fit
https://photos.app.goo.gl/T5vJM9VH1Bhtz27M6

view inside the battery box hatch, I think I am going to have good access to get in and maintain the batteries.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/P7oQSh7miAkz1Jxx7
Side view inside battery box
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Hho2dq2pAYj3pBct6

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 19th, '19, 19:27

I was thinking about what happens when I try to join the panels, I was planning on putting a 8" wide piece of 1708 as tabbing then 2 layers of 1708 going front to back in the boat + 1.5oz mat on top. Do you think that would be enough or should I layup some glass on the bottom so as it will stick out 2-3" and create a lip for the next panel to rest on?

With the panels outside the boat I could clamp a board covered in plastic flush with the bottom then put a couple layers of 1708 as the lip. I wouldn't have to do both sides of each piece, just the back side of the first, second, and front side of the last.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Sep 19th, '19, 23:28

Have you tested you can fit through the hatch the second battery, once the first one is already in? Just saying...

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Sep 20th, '19, 07:30

Panels are normally shipped and bonded. At least that's how we did.mine. at least one layer of glass on bottom I think is prudent. If you plan no skid you can probably skip the mat layer

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 20th, '19, 08:28

Cam,

I haven't tested if I can put a battery in and out on the outsides if one is already in the center, worse comes to worse I have to take the center battery out. There should be 6" over the top of the outboard batteries so I should have enough room to maintain them. The hatch is 15"x 24" so getting stuff in and out won't be an issue.

As for the panels, I did the lay up with 2 layers of 1708 on the bottom and one on the top knowing that I would put more layers on top when I glassed the individual panels together to make one deck. I was thinking of making the lip on the bottom so I could fill the gaps with filler and not have it drop into the hull as well as give the center 4' span over the fuel tank a little more reinforcement on the bottom side.

One item I didn't mention is that the 1st deck panel with the large hatch seemed a little weak when I walked over the back portion when it was in the boat by itself. Behind the hatch there is only 8" of material so it is kind of expected, I ended up putting 3 strips of 8" wide 1708 on the bottom across the width where the hatch is to beef up that area. It made a significant difference.

I will have to see but over the fuel tank is the only area where I have a 48" span and I was thinking of putting extra layers of glass under the bottom of the panels covering 1/2 of 1.5" diameter PVC tube to stiffen up that area. I'm going to cut out the last 2 panels tonight so I will see how it goes.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 20th, '19, 19:00

I was able to take a 1/2 day off so I had the time to finish cutting out and fitting the back 2 deck panels and cut out the opening for the bomar hatch.

from outside the boat
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ombcuyCLh23SQThB7
looking aft
https://photos.app.goo.gl/y7aGX4uuycyzwbWZ6
inside the old motorwell
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uJ4FbTKje61JnZ7o9

I got excited and had to see how things would look and put in the leaning post that I am fabricating and positioned it where it will end up. I am going to have 5'10" from the center of the inside transom cap to the back face of the leaning post. There will be more than enough room around the sides as well.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/q3iz9ckVXsT11KEG6

tomorrow will be a busy day
foaming in outside the main stringers
tabbing in the cabin bulkheads
fabricating the livewell drains and running the hoses inside the center stringer.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 21st, '19, 20:18

I sanded the hull to deck joint this morning to prepare it for gluing my new deck down. After messing around with Scott's suggested Makita thin belt sander, I determined it would be too slow to just use that and used the grinder for the front face and flat portion and then used the makita for the inside curve. The makita worked great for that task and saved an enormous amount of time doing that inside corner over doing it with a grinder. I would say the makita is more of a finesse tool than a grunt one but it serves its purpose well. I think I'm going to need to use it more to figure out how to use it best but I think it will be worth the expense and appreciate the suggestion.

Mid day I glassed in the back side of the cabin bulkheads and sweat my a$$ off as it was 80 degrees and probably closer to 90 inside the cabin inside the shrink wrap. I was drenched and needed to take a break even though I wet the glass out on a board outside the boat and brought it in and placed it so I was really only in the boat for 20 min.

In the afternoon I started foaming in outside the main stringers. I think I went a bit overboard and will be paying for it tomorrow when I have to cut the excess off flush.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nDj78xDqnzGb22sZ9

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 22nd, '19, 10:16

I was able to cut the foam down with a handsaw a lot easier than I thought it would be and now I am left with some rough edges. Do I need to seal the cut edges with something? If so what do you recommend?

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Sep 22nd, '19, 13:17

Ktm,
3 things:
-How easy will it be (I’m not even questioning the if), to open and remove, if necessary, all the sole.
-What is this elevated twin surface fwd of the fishbox?
- As I read all this, irrespective of whether it’s my boat type or not, I feel ready to understand what the owner plans for his boat, and in the same spirit, to suggest to you to save and conserve this discussion as a standing “Memoir” for your own, as well as future owners. It should even increase the value of your boat!
PS:Is ktm deriving from the bikes?

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 22nd, '19, 21:09

Hi Yannis,

The elevated twin surface in the front of the fishbox is just storage space. I was thinking of putting items such as plastic ammo cans which have gaskets on there and storing tools, milk crates which have bottles of engine related fluids etc. I wouldn't put anything down there which couldn't get somewhat wet or fish slimed if I put fish in the boxes. I was also thinking of trying to keep one side of the box clear as Non-fish so I could store a second anchor and a second 300' spool of anchor line, swim ladder, etc.

How easy would it be to remove the deck when I am done, not so much.... I am going to bond the deck pieces to the lip around the perimeter then glass it to the perimeter. I will take measurements and document the spacing of the stringers and the fuel tank so if I needed to I could take set a saw at the correct depth and cut the area around the fuel tank in the middle of the stringers so the panel could come out and the tank replaced.

I like your idea of saving the thread and any associated documentation. I have a lot more photos and documents such as the $$$ I've put in and the project plan / completion dates for each task.

Would it make the boat worth any more? I doubt it but It would be worth it to me if I need to do something in the future. I've owned this boat since 2003 and have no plans of changing it out for another.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 22nd, '19, 21:28

There was a family barbecue this afternoon so I didn't get anything done but here's the view from this morning after I finished up cutting the excess foam flush with the top of the stringers. As you can see from my pile I went a little overboard with the pours and had to cut a fair amount off. btw there's more cut off in the fishbox too. Also visible is the extra reinforcements I put under the hatch area as well as the 1/2 tube idea under the original bertram fuel tank hatch.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/om5gQnm3MRQ51cu2A

What you can't see in the photo is I left the back 6" of the cavity empty and the limber holes open so hopefully any water which could get in could migrate it's way back.

Cam's estimate of 3 gallons of foam was spot on as I bought a 5 gallon kit and used 2/3s of it. I think the overall kit was good for 49 cubic feet, so math wise that is 32 cubic feet I used, with the cutoffs I probably only got 80% of that so that works out to 26 cubic feet.

with the foam outboard of the stringers I doubt this boat would go down. I'm not saying that it wouldn't swamp and flip over but I doubt this boat would fully sink. I pray that I never get myself into that situation but hopefully I will be somewhat prepared.

The main reason for the foam is sound deadening. even the smallest waves lapping up against the boat used to reverberate through the hull and sound fairly loud. My goal was to reduce that sound.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 23rd, '19, 08:13

Foam...Oi

Foamed my tank with deck in place. Did large Solo Cups at a time...funny how by the 15 second mark somebody showed up seemingly every time. It was 20 seconds of stir and pour couple second window before it kicked off..in the boat or in the cup, or on the move. I had a good bunch of solo cups with a foot or so of foam stuck straight up and out of em. One or two got stuck under the deck...
It was a funny day...not necessarily a good day...but funny. Lots and lots of cutting and cleaning after.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 23rd, '19, 08:47

Carl,

I agree that it is interesting stuff to work with. I measured out 24oz of part and and 24oz of part b on a work table just outside the boat, took a deep breath, dumped them into a larger bucket at the same time then ran to the boat. Once in the boat I started mixing and after @30 seconds it would start expanding, I would mix 15 seconds more and dumped it out as fast as possible. After 5-6 pours I would get enough goo on my gloves that my fingers would stick together and I'd have to stop and get new gloves.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 23rd, '19, 13:05

I've been stuck in a long running nasty meeting today which I was only needed for 1/2hr so my curiosity kicked in and I googled up buoyancy calculations and found a coast guard site which had a document on it. The basic flotation calculation starts on page 19 of the document.
https://www.uscgboating.org/regulations ... TATION.pdf

I did out the calculation based upon their formula in a spreadsheet and think that I came pretty close thinking my rig wouldn't sink if I were loaded up. I did guess about a few things and am probably off but in the end I came up with a 5800# running weight including 1000# of passengers. The formula shows I need about 27 cubic feet of foam which is in the ballpark of what is in the boat.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KqCkyRJcsRpFoRBb7

I didn't read the portion on placement of the foam in the boat and I doubt I have that right as there's not a lot in the transom where the weight of the motor is.

based upon today's mental exercise, If I have a bunch of folks on board and run into issues, throw my fishing gear and anchors overboard and the boat should stay up. If I'm fishing with 1-2 others I should be fine.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Sep 23rd, '19, 22:48

Man, that must have been a hell of a boring meeting!

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 26th, '19, 10:39

Some small tasks have been completed lately

Added transom drain. I drilled out a 1" hole in the transom and then glued in a 3/4" ID PVC tube with epoxy

Added 3/4" PVC pieces to the bottom of the fuel tank with 5200 to keep some space under the tank clear to allow air flow under the tank
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6YQCjLTRZuoXGz5p8

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 27th, '19, 20:32

I took the day off to work on the boat and got a fair amount done. I wish it was all good but it wasn't.

It started off well figuring out the fishbox drains then I went on to adding a lip and extra supports under the deck panel which will go over the fuel tank.

I put the deck panel in the boat and marked the sides with a marker then pulled it out of the boat. In order to reinforce the panel, I cut a 1-1/2" PVC shedule 40 pipe in 1/2. I setup the panel bottom side up on a pair of saw horses then took a piece of a panel which was the same thickness and covered it in plastic. Then used clamps and cut-off pieces of boards to hold everything so the 2 pieces were level on the top. From there 2 layers of 1708 and some resin, I made a lip to join the deck panels + extra support.

ready to glass
https://photos.app.goo.gl/d9yx9aTVjipJdzgY6

wet out glass - I'm not sure what's got on the glass but parts are turning blue?? It has been happening since I switched rolls of 1708. It cures out fine, any ideas?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/FjEUauR62BkBFPEi8

I let it cure out for a couple hours and did the other side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tWfwjuNm9oYsLZe66

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 27th, '19, 20:56

now for the not so fun stuff...............

My buddy came over and we tried to put the fuel tank in and it didn't fit too well..... when measuring I didn't account too well for the corners which curve in as well as it was binding where I cut out the old battery boxes. In looking at it, the front 2 corners could be modified to get a 90 degree corner and there would be plenty of room. Once the fuel tank was taken back out I put a straight edge up to where the tank was binding on the side and I obviously didn't grind it flush before glassing.

so F'up #1, tank about 3/4" too long and about 3/4" too wide (due to f'up #2) . F'up #2 not grinding the stringer flush before reinforcing it.

I'm not going to re-do the fuel tank so out came the grinder. Dealing with the stringer on the side was fairly straight forward, grind until a board sits flat. Not a lot of material needed to come off to get the worst of it gone. I didn't take pics and will do before glassing tomorrow.

The front I cut out the curved corners with the thought process that the battery boxes in front are a nice big and fairly heavily reinforced cross brace. Loosing a little in the back wouldn't be the end of the world. I cut out the corners so as I could stick a board in either direction and get a 90 degree angle. I then started to clean up the surface under the stringer which has a nice oily residue built up on the bottom of the hull. I ground out what I could then applied acetone and a brush then scrubbed with a scotchbrite.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XQ6tiLfCkXfgxJZc7

I am going to glass it back together tomorrow morning. I will cut pieces of cardboard and cover with plastic and stick them in from the back sides. The plan of putting in 4 layers of 1708 set in with epoxy. I should be able to reach in the center hole and pull out the cardboard when I am done.

these 2 operations will more than fix my poor measuring and cost me a weekend of getting stuff done.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 28th, '19, 19:28

operation fix my f'up went through fairly smoothly today. I ground out a little more than what I had done yesterday making sure the stringers and cross braces were flat then I used a piece of scrap fiberglass and cut out shapes to make backer boards to allow me to glass the area together again more easily I only roughly cut them and I made sure there were no sharp ends and that nothing was tightly pressing on the hull. After cutting them out I used drywall screws to hold them in place.

backer pieces cut and fitted
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mEQAMsZJFXebgMhE8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WXpDr5vJV3rgu6Lc6

Then I mixed some epoxy with fast catalyst and then mixed in some ground fiberglass with a little cabosil to make sure it wouldn't slide and spread it out to bond in the pieces and fill in any large holes.
The fast epoxy had a 5 hour cure time so I put a 500 watt halogen on the port side first for an hour then the starboard side for an hour and it was hard enough to grind

After grinding down the filler
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EBkf124EXFsGMJe59
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tkjncfJ7GB94DAF56

Then I added 4 layers of 1708 doubling up the corner area. I probably should have ground some more of the paint off on the top but I think I had enough surface area prepped well.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8CQk8CLgpkGXPDaJ6

After glassing the corners I then put 4 layers of 1708 over the side of the stringer that I cut down, I forgot to take pics of that again...

Tomorrow I will use the grinder and knock the edges of the glass down and see if I can get the tank in by myself. This operation freed up 3" of space front to back for the fuel tank to live in so it should be able to go in much more easily now.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Sep 30th, '19, 06:00

Nice recovery! What material are you using as a spacers for the tank? Do you have drain holes in the tank area?

I hauled Blubert to the "non-ethanol" gas station yesterday (long ride) for a 40 gallon splash. Later on I hauled it up 95 to my house. It's a bit of a handful to haul with the engine hanging off the back. Too much weight aft of the trailer wheels. It likes to dance.
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/_A ... aeWnIS8czp

All systems work, except the engine. I need to get to a dealer to reprogram the EMM and power bleed the steering.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 30th, '19, 08:07

Cam,

She sure looks sweet!!!!! She seems to sit on your trailer nicely, is your tongue weight too low? Do you think she would trailer better if you had more fuel in her?

I can't wait to get my deck down in the next week so next spring I can uncover my boat and get a view like you have. I've been looking at this in the back yard for over a year now https://photos.app.goo.gl/oCuwoiFtQvWPDZbN9.

The shrinkwrap has been holding up fairly well, I did have to take the tape off the door and re-do it but most everything else is in good condition.

As for the tank, I put strips of 3/4" PVC trim on the bottom with 5200.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/dYL691MEtPcLR4Fe9

The cut out which I showed pics of the fishbox drain hoses running through will stay open so if any water gets in it will drain back.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Sep 30th, '19, 08:16

Cam, and KTM, Looking great!!

Cam, you should have around 200 pounds at the tongue of the trailer. If it is back loaded, it will sway and jackknife if you're nor careful. Had that happen with a load of wood on the highway. Scary experience. managed to keep it straight, stop on the shoulder and rearrange the load.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 30th, '19, 09:51

Hi Joe,

I think the 200# tongue weight is too low. I thought the rule of thumb for tongue weight was 10-15% of the weight of the towed rig. So if a Cam's B25 weighs about 5000lbs light on fuel and the trailer another 1400lbs the tongue weight should be at least 640lbs.

I know on my boat if I were to try to lift the tongue, I can't budge it.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Sep 30th, '19, 12:06

I tried to weigh the rig on the way to get gas, but the truck stop had pulled their scales out years ago (don't rely on web site data). My guess is 4500 dry. I had most of the structure in the boat, but no paint, engine or rigging at last weigh in -3400. Trailer weighs exactly 2000 (all galvanized steel). 600 pounds of engine hanging off the back tends to act like pendulum. The axles definitely need to go back, but there is no way to adjust them on this old trailer. It likes to wiggle, especially running down hill. High pucker factor at 65 mph on I-95, and really fun on narrow country roads.

Go slow, enjoy the scenery.

I have to run to southern Maryland Wednesday to the Evinrude dealer (70 miles). After that, I don't intend to use this trailer for more than local trips. I still plan to run the boat on the water to North Carolina next year.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 30th, '19, 12:20

Cam,

Could you put some weight in your bow lockers for that travel? (4) 50# bags of sand would cost less than $20 and would be decent insurance against all the work you've put into that boat.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Sep 30th, '19, 12:43

If you can't move the axles back, can you move the stop and the supports forward a bit?

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Sep 30th, '19, 14:52

mike ohlstein wrote:If you can't move the axles back, can you move the stop and the supports forward a bit?

That's a good idea. I can move the stand forward at least a foot. Can't move the rollers, but they should be fine in place. The trailer supports the boat with keel rollers and stabilizes it with the side rollers (these articulate). Will try tonight, and might add some sand bags as well! Thanks!

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 30th, '19, 20:20

I ground down the edges of the glass then test fit the fuel tank and it fits but is snug. The quote from my buddy is "You got a little fuel greedy" and so my modifications will continue.

top view
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pXEPQ6LvQk9oKKzB7

about 2" extra space at the back side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mpNkWqM56A1dsLiQ9

Not a lot of space over the pickups - I have an inspection hatch going over this area so it will work fine. There is 3/4" space now which is about the height of a 90 degree hose barb, the deck is 1-1/8" and the hatch sticks down 1/2" so I will pick up 5/8" more height over the barbs.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qK6jdgr3xdwe6rh96

Not a lot of space over the fill either, If I installed the hose without modifications, it would rub on the bottom of the deck. I'm going to decore the deck here to pickup 7/8" more headroom. The deck has 1 layer of 1708 on top, I was going to put 2 layers more when I tie the deck panels together, so my thought is to decore the bottom of the deck in a circle around the fill and put 2 layers of 1708 on the bottom. When all is done there would be 5 layers or 3/8" of solid glass over the top of the fill so I doubt there would be a soft spot.https://photos.app.goo.gl/ebCTwAd1YXkeUh9H6

look down side edge, I think I don't have space to put in 1-1/2" pvc pipes to run wires in so my new thought is to cut a pipe in 1/2 then notch the bulkhead on both sides leaving a 1/2 circle on the bottom and then place the 1/2 pipe section on the bottom, all hoses, wires, etc would run down each side on top of the PVC. I wish I did the test fit before I did the finishing so I could have made the cuts in the bulkheads and finished the insides. I'll make it work but it could have been nicer.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/u1AmE1eHxG21eDyA6

If I were to do it over again, I would have made the tank smaller, live and learn.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Sep 30th, '19, 23:31

https://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-2000 ... way&sr=8-1

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Oct 1st, '19, 06:56

Ouch! that is Tight! Thoughts:
1. You need a hatch over the fill/vent/bond location unless your deck hatch is removable.
2. Can you box in the area on either side of the tank for wire chases? 1 1/2" is very small. I quickly ran out of wire chase capacity and had to get creative. One way to add capacity is to run small diameter tubes on top of the tank. Also leave yourself an "Ooops, I forgot X conduit". I have already used part of mine. Make use of the outboard stringers...plenty of capacity there.

I moved my boat about a foot forward on the trailer. Actually moved to it too far and had to pick up the boat an roll it back 3 inches. neat trick. Will test today. I like that gauge. I'm using the Cam's ass gage - measure height of ball, measure height of ball when standing on the back bumper, measure height of ball with boat attached. Will test today

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 1st, '19, 08:09

Cam,

I was going to leave the approx 1-1/2" x 6" tall area open on both sides, it should be more than enough room on either side of the tank, the thought was to use 1/4 or 1/2 of a larger diameter pvc pipe to line the bottom of that area so wires could not slide down and get jammed between the tank and the stringers.

I have 2 bomar deck plates which I was going to use 1 over the pickups and I could put one over the fill as well.
https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/product ... -2382.html

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Oct 1st, '19, 08:21

Maybe you can use fiberglass angles to create an open top chase.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 1st, '19, 10:19

I have some fiberglass angle iron, I was going to use it to create a flange for the doghouse to bolt down to the deck. I'm not sure how much I have, I'll have to look.

In lieu of that I was thinking of same concept as you describe but cutting a PVC pipe lengthwise and using it to accomplish the same purpose.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 2nd, '19, 10:31

I worked on the rigging tubes last night. On the port side I started by drilling a 2-1/8" hole as low as I could along the ridge that is molded into the stringers near the fuel tank. I test fit a 1-1/2" PVC tube and it looked good so I stacked a 2nd one vertically on that side.

You can see in the background, the old motor well is not as deep. The pieces are just test fit now, I will get some clear PVC glue and set them permanently.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/aUVwhstB5Ea9RPwg8
top view
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GzcirEkPSeZdDvyw5

After folks here warning me about making enough space, I was worried about engine wiring harnesses and transducer connections not fitting in the small diameter tubes so I cut out a square opening on the starboard side, then cut a 1/4 section out of a 3" PVC tube and set that in place. I will probably use a bit of 5200 to bed it in so it doesn't vibrate and make noise.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nxkp8ukmoSpxPXqM6

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 2nd, '19, 11:25

Are you sure you don't want to know what happens to the sides of your tank? If something goes wrong you cannot see the sides at all.

If you cut the top part of the little bulkhead (over the one end of the whole tube side)then you could lift the tube end and take a look underneath. I’d put resin around the other end of the tube only.

Same on the other half tube side.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 4th, '19, 18:24

ended up cutting out the area holding the PVC tubes after realizing with the PVC tubes in place I couldn't run the fuel fill and vent hoses, 3D chess is not my forte.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/D3oY6ZXsjVYNm624A

with that, slight change of plans, I'm going to run the supply and drain hoses for the livewell down that side and the electrical down the other side.

I did a test fit of the panel which will go over the fuel tank and with the 2 pieces of 1/2 section of PVC glassed on the bottom side there is NO flex of the deck panel even when I jump up and down on the deck. I will have to grind a little of the lip off marked with black marker so it sits flat.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uJyFNfu16R8ZTnP28

lastly I got the fishbox drains looking decent and I posted pics of that on the fishbox drain thread so I won't post them here.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 6th, '19, 13:31

In order to make more headroom over the fuel fill and vent I removed the core over the area and added several layers of glass. I filled the inside corners with pre-made high density filler thus the blue color. A 6" diameter inspection hatch can go over this area. This work cleared up 3/4" of headspace over the fill.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1S6kSo6zaGaL5dzK6

the panel was then painted with bilge paint as the front will go over the fishbox, the large opening will be over the battery box.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/F3i3rnPj4ApsGGFW7

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 6th, '19, 13:41

I'm trying to figure out how to run the fill and drain for the livewell without putting a 90 degree hose connector under the deck. This is the area I have to work with.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qu7vTfjFWnbut3f39

My thought is to make a rectangular cut in the deck just inside the leaning post and have the hoses come up on a slight angle. I'm currently at a loss of how to do a drain down low as well as an overflow drain up high and put in the corresponding shut offs in such a small area.

Any suggestions?

Would it be ghetto to just do the overflow drain up high and to drain the tank after use, put a drain down low on the back of the tank? I have the drain plug the place that made the tank gave me. Here's how the mfg sets up the tank.
http://cmmarineproducts.com/Product/Det ... c9da010677

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 6th, '19, 13:50

last thought process for the day...

I am contemplating not gluing / glassing down the deck this fall in order to take my time to figure out all the under deck stuff so I don't mess anything up. The flip side of that decision is that I have a 5 gallon bucket of vinylester resin which needs to be used up fairly soon and am trying to think up ways to consume it.

Some use cases I'm thinking of
1. I've got some 3/8" nida core which I could layup panels to close in some of the side of the boat. I was thinking of a panel going from the back gunnel support up to where I have the smaller rounded knee. https://photos.app.goo.gl/SKbMi6gvzQGfYyV9A
2. thinking about putting a layer of 1708 over the hull sides interior to fill in the weave of the woven roving.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 8th, '19, 10:34

I think I've figured out how I am going to plumb the livewell. I did a profile drawing for the main portion and a small top down view in the upper left corner

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QcuhpbPQ2WfvDdbK8

If I do a rectangular cut out and back bevel the corner cuts I should be able to run the hoses over the top of the fuel tank and only put slight bends into them in order to get above the deck into the leaning post. From there use a 1-1/2 Y valve and set it pointing to the overflow when running the livewell and then point it to the drain part when not in use.

I would probably make the cut wide enough to run both drain and fill hoses side by side. The leaning post will be glassed down to the deck. The fuel tank area does drain to the bilge if water were to get inside the leaning post and make its way through the cut out. I was thinking about putting starboard doors in the leaning post to be able to see all the hoses as well as gain extra storage.

Any suggestions to improve this before I do any cutting?

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 14th, '19, 08:37

I de-cored the area over the fuel pickups and left it fairly large so I could install a small inspection hatch over the area. This will give me 3/4" extra head space over the pickups
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6Sh58Z9JZNdrz9Hj8

Then I cut out a piece of nida-core for the top of the leaning post and put all the deck pieces in the boat along with my old center console for the winter to free up space in the garage. If time is tight next year, and the desire for fishing is greater than finishing a project, I could go with the old console. It will need a little modification to make it fit better but will work
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LJgAhoJD1iWQqjWR7

just to see how it looked I put in the bomar hatches. The cockpit of this boat should be quite large for a 25' boat when I am all done. The one thing I need to figure out is how to enclose the center of the transom area to hide hoses, wires, fuel filters, etc from view. The transom cap is curved slightly and a flat panel would have a gap up high if I went that way/
https://photos.app.goo.gl/84Udz3asnBxeqX7R8

I think the boat renovation season is coming to an end....... I didn't work on the boat during the week due to the cold rain and only got a couple of hours in on Sunday. I think with all the deck pieces in I could do some work over the winter prepping the interior hull sides for fairing, cutting out gunnel knees, etc. but for the most part, I'm done until spring.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 14th, '19, 14:20

What do you think I should do about about stern cleats?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/r5VBDMb7Y4kh4Q2R6

Option #1
In a bunch of B31s I've seen blocks of wood placed on the transom and transom cleats through bolted thru the hull then the wood.

Option #2
In another boat I've had there was a 3/4" board put in the transom corners on a 45 degree angle and then the board glassed into the hull. The cleat would then be through bolted through the board. This option would do dual duty of reinforcing the corners of the transom to the hull sides.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 14th, '19, 15:01

This is a 5cm thick mahogany, sikaflexed on a "Π" shaped premolded 5-6mm thick grp support, that has been trimmed in situ to match the boat angles.
The support is plastified to the hull with multiple layers.
The cleats are through bolted as there is enough hand space behind the support to fit the security nuts. In the last two pics the cleats have been changed into bigger ones, more suitable to our methods of mooring.
Important: The cleat is at an angle to ease the rope's twists quickly, without meddling with the loose (dock) end. If done correctly, this is a bulletproof solution.

https://imgur.com/a/cZYeKp8

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 14th, '19, 17:18

Yannis,

Is that a removable panel? My B25 came with a rear panel which had cleats + the motor well molded together.

I like the 45 degree angle piece with the cleat on it, that is what I am thinking about for option #2.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 14th, '19, 17:32

Which panel are you referring to?

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Oct 15th, '19, 10:41

That is a serious hatch!

Not trying to give you more work ideas, but if you are "done for the season" on the boat, you could make a mold for the transom close-out and built it off the boat!

Could incorporate the transom cleats in this module.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 15th, '19, 15:48

Yannis,
I couldn't tell from your pic if the area where the stern cleat was a separate molded part inside the transom.

Cam,
Since I kept the boat on a trailer, One of my gripes of the B25 was dealing with all the water and leaf debris which would find its way into the bilge. The drains the drop down area were always clogged and any water that got in there went into the bilge and had to be pumped out. I'm hoping to keep the bilge clean in the future and am designing the boat to minimize those things from occurring. There's another Bomar Aluminum hatch just like it forward of the fishbox to access the batteries. I got the hatches used and with new seals, they should be water tight. The only ways for water to get under deck would be through the fishbox or into the cabin. To address those concerns, I will be putting a gasket and 2 hatch dogs on the fishbox hatch and a lip on the cabin entrance. For the most part water should drain to the transom and I will be putting large scuppers in there.

I like the idea on the molded in part done over the winter. I like the look of this B31 which I saved a picture of https://photos.app.goo.gl/eueVmqDU9ygetykv6. If you look at that pic, you can see that part stays straight and the transom cap curves leaving a gap. The one thing I've been thinking about is how to deal with the curve of the transom cap. Would it look funky and or hard to build if the top was curved to match the transom cap but the bottom was squared off?

Also, how wide should I build it? I would like to put some 0 degree swivel rod holders in the transom cap and don't want them draining water into the mechanical area.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 15th, '19, 17:59

Ktm,

The stern cleat assembly is a separate molded part inside the transom.

I also think that you should be able to QUICKLY open the bilge(s) for inspection, there is no Bertram that I know which doesn't need something to be done below, at all times, whether it be water, oil, blocked tubing, a weird smell, a strange noise...I suggested it before and I insist, I would not seal the floor panels. To think you can obtain a waterproof “seal” in a Bertram is beyond my ability to comprehend, but then again, nobody claims I’m the smartest!

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Oct 15th, '19, 20:58

Yannis,

We are thinking the same.... Everything that is serviceable will be able to be accessed easily. I want to be able to get under the deck when I want to but want to seal it up when I don't. Most of my mechanical pumps and single sea-cock will all be under the deck under that back aluminum hatch, my batteries will be under a similar hatch further forward. As for getting into the hatch, pull up the T-handle vertically and turn 1/4 turn to release the dogs and pickup the hatch cover. I'm in in under 30 seconds.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Oct 16th, '19, 08:42

Beware of large scuppers on the 25. The deck is not much above the waterline. I wouldn't put any scuppers in that would allow more water in than my pumps would be able to remove.

I put plugs in the scuppers when drifting or at anchor since water will come in the scuppers if anyone is sitting in the stern. If running or trolling this is not needed as the water will flow out.

At rest at the marina I do not put the plugs in since there is no weight in the stern.